Your post elliehen, also speaks volumes about your nature.
elliehen,
Apr 23, 1:06pm
Back on track, for John and Jack :)
11:16 am, Thu 22 Apr #2001From the 'Food Lies' thread
babytears,
Apr 23, 7:03pm
Great Reading - very interesting... . what you're saying buzzy is spot on... . this day and age we are plagued- with what we think is convenience is actually to our detriment... . thanks
cookessentials,
Apr 23, 8:52pm
Not at all Waltraud... . some interesting info, however, probably better in the health section rather than recipes - just a comment that's all and also one heck of a alot to get through when it is post after post after post. I am sure if it was posted by someone else there would be ructions because it was said to be "in the wrong section" I read it, NOT, as you seem to think because I "zoned in" on a post from buzzy, but from the point of view of taking in the info, which, I might add became almost a tome. As for people who are now complaining because others have criticised it... . . when the shoe is on the other foot so to speak, the rules always seem to change... . in other words, perfectly fine for the poster and supporters to rubbish others, but dont seem to appreciate it if it is ever aimed at them... . "pot calling kettle black" comes to mind. Anyway, thanks for the post buzzy, fascinating but very long and convoluted and probably even more confusing for those people who do not have an understanding of it all.
buzzy110,
Apr 23, 9:00pm
Do not bother responding to the negative posters who come in here. You will notice that they have nothing to add to, nor can they detract from, the information that has been posted.
These posters are vegetarians. ellihen won't eat anything that once had a face. We have been called names because we espouse a diet that is high in wholefoods, including animal proteins and fats. We are very much against foods that are high in refined carbohydrates, pre-packaged, denatured, embalmed, additive filled, contain deformed ingredients, refined sugar, fructose and artery clogging vegetable oils.
Often these posters will defend those foods. Their rationale is that people have a life and that cooking with convenience foods means they can have more of that life when the reality is, they will actually have less of that life in the long run.
Choose well who you listen too. Personally I find the words of Nobel Prize winner, Albert Schwitzer more inspirational than theirs. I seek out authors who have researched the whole conundrum of politically correct nutrition and presented their findings in clear, unbiased writings believing that they are more informed than those who can't even be bothered to read.
cookessentials,
Apr 23, 9:14pm
Point one: I am not vegetarian Point two: I very rarely have "packet food" Point Three: I consider myself a good cook, utilising many whole foods including eggs from our own choooks, fruits and vege from our own garden, BUT I also buy other ingredients. Shame you find it so so easy to berate anyone who does not conform yo your idea of what is good for them. IF someone wants to live on pre-packaged food, THAT is their choice and it is certainly not up to others to condemn them for it. Brow beating others certainly does not encourage them to make healthy food choices and I still stand by my comments above. This is why we live in a democracy buzzy... people make their own choices. I am pleased too see that here on the recipe section, there are more and more people learning to cook and taking an interest in making things for themselves... that is to be encouraged, however, to criticise and berate others if they DARE use something that is not "whole" is certainly no way to encourage anyone!
buzzy110,
Apr 23, 9:15pm
Two more thoughts to remember:
Man did not reach the top of the food chain and overcome physical weakness (no claws, talons, killing jaws, etc) to become the most populous and successful mammal on this planet by being vegetarian. The human physiology demands pre-formed amino acids, CLA and essential fatty acids that can only come from animals and fish.
"Out of all the species on this Earth that thrive on the foods given them, surely Mother Nature did not see fit to single us out and provide us with a selection of foods that would kill us and were unhealthy". (Tom McNaughton's idea)
This is the logic behind this thread.
buzzy110,
Apr 23, 9:18pm
I started this thread, because once I had posted it in Food Lies I realised that there was a huge amount of other information, that wasn't necessarily connected with lies disseminated to us by the medical profession, and to do this subject justice I thought I'd start a new thread.
The rationale behind putting it in recipes is that I hoped that people might read it and decide to learn more. Food is important and Recipes is relevant. If people want recipes that include wholefoods then they are in the correct place to ask.
bedazzledjewels,
Apr 23, 9:19pm
Cookessentials - I don't think that Buzzy was meaning you. That's the way I read it anyway. Your revelation Buzzy, explains quite a lot. Must read up more about CLA.
buzzy110,
Apr 23, 9:31pm
One more thing about the 'other' posters. They really are hypocrites. They state and restate their rule of sticking strictly within the parameters of the first post in any thread UNLESS they have a negative opinion about anything in which case they are more than happy to make an exception.
I invite anyone to post their messages against wholefoods and why you think they aren't all they are cracked up to be. Use whatever justifications you can find or know to defend refined foods and vegetarianism and we'll take it from there.
Use all your knowledge to argue your case against animal proteins and fats, even emotional arguments because, at the end of the day, emotional arguments are the last resort of vegetarians who have been backed into a corner and want to come out fighting.
griffo4,
Apr 23, 9:31pm
Thanks for starting this thought provoking thread buzzy l haven't read it all yet but it got me thinking about what you have been saying and l want to add to it All these whole foods and other types, how nutrient dense are they? Kay Baxter, Koanga Gardens, wrote an article about nutrient dense foods after she found that the food she was growing organically didn't have the nutrients she thought they had and so set about finding how to improve this. Anyway she got a Brix meter and started measuring all her food and found it was below par so she changed all that
My question for everyone is how nutrient dense are these whole foods we buy and grow, does anyone here Brix measure their food? l bet they are not as dense as our forebears food
We have a friend who has a meter and he had some really interesting things to tell us about some of the foods and some of the foods from the supermarkets and commercial seed grown in home garden you would get the same amount of goodness from eating cardboard Also when Hugh FW did that experiment with chickens and he found that the ones grown in sheds, like the ones we get in the supermarket, are basically fast food, very fatty and no nutrients but the ones grown outside( both organically and free range) were far better and had all the good things l agree with eating as many whole foods as possible but alot of people don't have the chance to have grow their own but are we all missing out on the goodness with our soils being wrong and the seeds are modified to look good but be basically be fast food?
Great to have some thought provoking threads on recipes, after all we need food to make a recipe so knowing what goodness is in our food has got to be good
l am interested to see what others think on this subject and give their insights into this
buzzy110,
Apr 23, 9:35pm
The logic of your argument escapes me cookse. I start an informative thread about wholefoods. You agree that you use whole foods, and then by some sleight of hand I am being asked "how I dare brow beat people". How does disseminating information correlate with brow beating?
I have not demanded that anyone stop using processed foods, I am merely pointing out the damage that these foods can do.
fruitluva2,
Apr 23, 9:39pm
While it may be a good read to begin with ( not that all of us are ignorant of it) till you reach post 19 then it ceases to justify being in Recipes'. Body functions and parts etc do not mix with food! Period! in some cultures other than being food etiquette. And as it has been said its a topic forthe Health forum and not Recipes'. That said, desserts, cakes etc do have their place in a reasonable diet. If it is all we eat, then yes, can be dangerous, But once in a while doesn't deserve the tirade it gets.
hezwez,
Apr 23, 9:41pm
Current score in this thread, buzzy110: 23 ~ other posters: 45 I declare buzzy110 the winner of the monologue challenge!
fruitluva2,
Apr 23, 9:50pm
Sheesh having read further in, what a ruddy messy thread and #64 is so OTT for Recipes forum
buzzy110,
Apr 23, 9:51pm
griffo4 you make some really excellent points and we need posts like that in here. Uli can tell you heaps about nutrient depletion in soils. I have read posts from her that point out that even organic gardens, will eventuallyrun out of nutrients and require artificial assistance.
If I can hark back to my school days I remember learning about native tribes who used to burn a new patch in the jungle for their crops every three years or so. They maintained the integrity of their food crops, simply by using 'new', forest enriched soils every few years.
I also remember learning how in the Dark Ages our so called ignorant peasant forebears used to 'rest' or let go to fallow, every three years, pasture and gardens and grow and graze anew in fallow land. It is very interesting and a salient point.
Records of tribes cultures that appeared to be 'resistant' to the diseases that afflict modern man, were all mostly hunters and gatherers. I wonder if anyone has ever bothered to read entries in Cook's journals, describing the condition of Maori. They were fit, slim, very strong and had high stamina. They lived off wild birds, eels, seafood, a bit of agriculture, some edible wild greens and other humans!
Sadly I haven't got any answers to the problem of nutrient depletion in the modern world.
cookessentials,
Apr 23, 9:53pm
perhaps read what you say about people who use anything other than wholefoods buzzy, that was what I was talking about Here is a wee quote for you
"The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right. "
cookessentials,
Apr 23, 9:55pm
well said FL
buzzy110,
Apr 23, 10:01pm
cooks and the other posters in this thread, if you have any argument against wholefoods, post it and stop the personal attack. Put your case and your evidence that proves I'm talking through a hole in my head, that Albert Schwitzer's observations were patently untrue, that other observers at the time made hideous mistakes about the health of primitive peoples and I'll concede.
fruitluva if you find descriptions of medical intrusions that have their origins in what foods are eaten then don't come in here.
If you want to persist in personal attacks against me then start a thread and go for it.
hezwez,
Apr 23, 10:05pm
buzzy110, when I was small we played a game called "Last Word" when, browbeaten by siblings in playfights, each would insist on having the last word. But I grew up and out of it. :-)
bedazzledjewels,
Apr 23, 10:10pm
Surely some (or most! ) body functions are the end result of the food you eat? ! Therefore very closely related to food I would have thought!
cookessentials,
Apr 23, 10:12pm
Not a personal attack buzzy, an observation... you continue to be defensive and add insults to boot.
buzzy110,
Apr 23, 10:25pm
The primitive tribes observed by various missionaries and doctors in the late 19th and early 20th centuries actually never ate cakes, biscuits or white flour of any description. Modern people, however, will often eat those things every day. Let's take a look at the typical diet that most people eat:
Breakfast Menus. 1. Nothing. 2. Coffee/tea with sugar and or pasteurised milk and white bread toast with margarine/butter and a sugar spread or marmite. 3. Same as 2 but without the sugar and milk and using a wholegrain toast with margarine/butter and savoury spread. 4. Manufactured cereal with low fat milk, tea/coffee, etc. 5. Cooked cereal with sugar/honey or similar, banana/apple and low fat yoghurt. 6. Low fat yoghurt and fresh fruit. 7. A low carb breakfast. 9. White rice congee with pickles
Need I go on? . All but 2 of those breakfast menus has sugar, refined flours and cereals and sugars of some description.
Morning tea, Afternoon tea. Coffee/tea with sugar. Maybe a biscuit or half a muffin (maybe even a whole muffin) with or without margarine/butter.
Lunch - Possible selections - Sandwich/roll with salad and a slither of processed meat or cooked chicken, burger with meat and tiny bit of salad and fries. Soup and roll. Meat Pie. Reheated leftovers - usually pasta based or at least with some refined starch.
Seems like most of those have a high sugar content even if there is no actual sugar in the foods, they turn sugar within seconds once ingested and in the bloodstream. Sucrase can break the bonds in sugars faster than you can blink. Fructose goes to your liver because it is a toxin and only the liver can process it. Glucose is picked up by insulin, used in cells for energy with excess stored as fat in fat cells. You already ate you sugar allotment for the day with breakfast!
So who is actually only eating cakes and biscuits once in a while?
buzzy110,
Apr 23, 10:30pm
As you yourself seem not to be indifferent to whether I have taken your advice or not cooks, I wonder why you seem to think I should be. I mean, this is the second time you have made this quote in as many minutes. Are you not supposed to be indifferent to whether I accept it or not.
Make your case for or against whole foods.
fruitluva2,
Apr 23, 10:32pm
Buzzy you are so OTT with your high and mightways. I don't give a sh! te what you think as its blardy obvious you don't give a sh! t to food etiquette. I'll say again as others have ALREADY Said your garbage does Not belong in theRecipes Forum!
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