For those a bit more scientifically inclined, Here is some research about the estrogenic and phytoestrogens effects of soy.
Quote" "Soybeans! Healthy, right? Full of vitamins? Full of protein? Yes, everyone knows that. Not according to new research. It is common knowledge that soybeans are loaded with plant compounds that mimic estrogen, a female hormone. Many post menopausal women use soy products to help control hot flashes and other problems caused by hormonal imbalances. And soy is very effective in supplying the hormones needed! Think about it. If soy products supply sufficient hormones to balance out older women, what are they doing to newborn babies fed soy formula? What is this female hormone doing to men who have a constant diet of tofu and soy milk? What about younger women who already have a full supply of estrogen; how does a diet of estrogen rich soy affect them? Research is now strongly pointing to some very disturbing facts. " http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/07abstract.htm
Each to his own though. I prefer my facts from science, and science tells me not to go close to unfermented soy products.
ferita,
Jul 12, 3:52pm
You prefer facts from science do you. To bad you are basing your so called facts on a site that is anti soy propaganda.
Soy actually protects men against prostate cancer http://journals. cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract? fromPag e=online&aid=1208260
marielize1,
Jul 12, 4:06pm
I imagine, all effect will be linked to quantities though, Like GI and GL. Having a cup of coffee once a week with some soy milk, might have no effect while feeding a baby soy every day might indeed.
Since the taste of soy products is very low on my list for enjoyable eats, I cant see the advantages of risk taking. But as I said each to his own, some people my love it. Enough data has been gathered to show there are major disadvantages to consuming large quantities of soy products. Even if anti-soy people have listed the research for us.
marielize1,
Jul 12, 4:19pm
This seems to make sense. By making men more like woman, they have less male problems.
ferita,
Jul 12, 4:45pm
Enough data has been gathered to show there are major advantages for using Soy. Soy is a superfood and the only people who are anti soy are the pro-meat internet trained wannabe nutritionists.
pickles7,
Jul 12, 4:48pm
This child would have died, if it wasn't for a nurse who was going over all the food this child had been given over nine months. The child thrived on soy, and was soon sent home with it's Mother, not in cyps care. Threads such as this should be axed by trade me as being just plain "menacing"
pickles7,
Jul 12, 4:59pm
... . . ferita... . I am with you on this. I could add others, not just... . nutritionists... .
ferita,
Jul 12, 7:48pm
There is a group of wannabe nutritionists on here who think they know everything about food and nutrition and are trying to promote their views as main stream. Their views are not mainstream, in fact they are looney fringe beliefs.
blt10,
Jul 12, 10:06pm
Agree totally.
buzzy110,
Jul 12, 11:40pm
LOL pickles - using your own postings and then quoting it.
Anyway, this child could also have gone onto goat milk and had the same outcome. Goat milk, unlike soy milk, has been a mainstay of some cultures for well over 10, 000 years so if there were any untoward side effects they'd be well documented by now.
All we, of the anti soy brigade are saying, is that soy is an unproven quantity. Up until recently Asians ate their soy fermented. Nowadays soy is taken from the plant, processed and popped onto supermarket shelves for consumption in less time that it takes to make a packet of butter.
I have no problems with you all eating soy. That is your right. But I do take issue with your ethics. Surely, when a food is still controversial and may or may not be safe, wouldn't it be better, to err on the side of caution?
buzzy110,
Jul 12, 11:44pm
You know, I don't even recommend milk, in the form it is being sold at present, to anyone anymore because the jury is now out on whether that is even healthful anymore. Simply by pasteurising it, the powers that be have taken away an essential enzyme which means that synergy no longer applies and milk becomes extremely difficult to digest.
Add to that the fact that our wonderful A2 Jersey cow herds have been replaced by A1 fresian and fresian jersey cow crosses, so the milk is even less healthy.
buzzy110,
Jul 12, 11:49pm
I also understand that you are having a great time name calling and trying to get the best riposte in but I have never had an agenda. All I have ever wanted to do is help people to understand that the food we eat is what nourishes our bodies. Apart from illness caused by environmental toxins, bacterium, virus' and accident, all other disease and disorder is caused or prevented by the foods we eat.
Jeer as hard as you like but that fact is irrefutable and we should be more educated about what we stick into our bodies, because those responsible for our health and welfare have been seduced by big money and producers who want to sell more of their products than may necessarily be good for us.
buzzy110,
Jul 12, 11:53pm
Back to soybeans. Here is a quote from Wild Fermentation:
"Soybeans are an extraordinarily protein-rich food but is largely indigestible without fermentation. Fermentation breaks down the soybeans' complex protein into readily digestible amino acids, giving us traditional asian foods such as miso, tempeh and tamari".
So putting aside all the other arguments, feeding an infant on an indigestible food is probably not very intelligent.
pickles, the child may appear to have thrived, but like smoking and drinking, the effects may not become apparent till many years down the track.
buzzy110,
Jul 12, 11:54pm
So now I'm done. Start your jeering now.
ferita,
Jul 13, 12:07am
5 posts in a row. An you say you have no agenda ... yeah right
pickles7,
Jul 13, 1:51am
Goats milk was tried, Soy was the only food this child could gain weight on. if it wasn't for soy, the child would have died. 9 months of age , still at birth weight. It was very touch and go for this child. I am going back a good many years now.
stormbaby,
Jul 13, 1:56am
Honestly, I know a whole family (several actually) raised on soy as they were allergic to cows milk. The "kids" now in their 20's have no problems whatsoever. 20 years ago we were told it was safe and it was all the rage as the healthy thing to do. I am not saying it is or it isn't and know full well that nowadays it is not recommended. What I am saying is that if we had "google" 20 years ago, all the information about soy would be glowing, as that was what was available, only positvie information. Makes you think doesn't it!
ferita,
Jul 13, 1:59am
It makes you realise that the pro-meat fanatics will stoop to any level to push their agenda these days.
marielize1,
Jul 13, 2:38am
I would really like to know what the "agenda" is as I have not seen or heard of it. Souds like the real X-files! If you have a copy could you let me see? I always thought it was about personal experience and choice.
ferita,
Jul 13, 2:53am
There is a group of people on here who are anti vegetarian and pro meat. they love nothing more then to come into a vegetarian thread and spout the so called benefits of animal fats etc. Even though The World Health Organization (WHO) has concluded that saturated fats negatively affect cholesterol profiles, predisposing individuals to heart disease, and recommends avoiding saturated fats in order to reduce the risk of a cardiovascular disease.
elliehen,
Jul 13, 2:57am
marielize1, I am not interested in debating 'to soy or not to soy'. I always prefer to know whom I'm talking to, and here everyone is anonymous.
However, I can help you with your question about the "agenda". It's all in the Low Carb / No Carb people thread, where posters constantly talk about the need to educate all the wretched ignorant people elsewhere on the MB, in fact all over New Zealand. . and the World! You must have read those posts... .
marielize1,
Jul 13, 3:04am
But would that not be their choice? They prefer fat and you prefer soy. You see the harm in fat, their experience is different. They see the harm in soy, your experience is different. Once we do not allow people to voice there own ideas (even if it is very different from our own) we are breaking down the very basis of free speech. And that to me is most probably the most precious thing we have.
ferita,
Jul 13, 3:09am
There is no statute or positive rule of the common law recognising and protecting freedom of speech and expression in New Zealand. If you really think you have freedom of speech then you are deluded. Especially on a message board that is owned by a company.
Secondly, if you have fringe beliefs that are not based on any scientific facts by credible organisations then you should expect to have your opinions challenged.
marielize1,
Jul 13, 3:18am
I still like to hear everybody's views and then, to make up my own mind. I love science, so will always go the -latest- knowledge. Although it is not science, my personal health as guidance to right and wrong eating is as important to me as free speech (even if I am deluded about the free-speech).
elliehen,
Jul 13, 3:25am
marielize1, freedom of speech does not mean that you can stand up in a crowded cinema and shout, FIRE!
The high fat / low carb devotees are constantly standing up and shouting in every thread... . FAT!
It is often irrelevant, and irritating, especially as your own designated thread is not similarly invaded.
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