The dangers of soy

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buzzy110, Oct 18, 10:43pm
How do you reconcile that quote with your defence of soy products? Why would you support a food that can cause boys to develop symptoms of poisoning? Surely the safest soy products would be those that actually neutralised the two inhibitors so that proteins could be hydrolysed? Forgive this question but wouldn't the presence of the inhibitors actually lead to the passing onto the next generation an allergy to soy products in much the same way as peanut allergies can be passed onto the children of mothers who ate peanuts whilst pregnant.

buzzy110, Oct 18, 10:44pm
If you do decide to answer my humble questions please can you reply in a language that someone like me, who hasn't got a science background, can understand.

ngaire29, Oct 18, 11:59pm
My daughter is Lactose and Soy intollerant. We found this out because she screamed after every bottle and that was if she did take a bottle, so in desperation we tried soy as no doctors would help us, they all told us that it was "normal" for our baby to refuse to feed and to scream like she did! She ended up doing the same on soy and it took a long time and a lot of presistance for the doctors to finally do something! She is now on a hypo-allergenic formula, but I hope we havent caused any major damage to her! Makes us so angry!

buzzy110, Oct 19, 3:36am
Deus -This statement also intrigued me, "How about Mary Enig, PhD (vice president of Westen A. P and born in 1931. . which makes her nearly 80 years old today. Would you take nutritional advice from someone that old, ... " Now surely, any advice coming from someone 80 years old who has walked the walk and talked the talk and is still hale, hearty and full witted, is surely good advice wouldn't you say? I mean I could take advice from the Heart Specialist in "Dead Doctors don't Lie" but his life span was only half that of Mary's and he had a heart attack! . I reckon she is living proof of her own advice and the good Dr is dead proof of his.

uli, Nov 9, 5:56am
"... As for fermented soy, tofu is not fermented in the manufacturing process. To make the kind of fermented tofu eaten in Asia, they take that unfermented tofu and then pickle it. People don't generally eat fermented tofu here, so it's pretty much off-limits. I'll eat soy sauce and sometimes miso but I try to keep that to a minimum... . "

To Hell and Back (under the influence of soy)
http://www.sherryelton.co.nz/index. cfm? id=47

http://freetheanimal.com/2009/02/poison-soy.html

welshiegirl1011, Nov 9, 10:24am
i was told by my oncologist to stay away from any soy product after my treatments especially since my cancer was estrogen based

racheee, Nov 9, 9:32pm
Welshiegirl - you will have to be really careful then, as soy is in many many processed foods. Soy flour is used a lot.

indigo1, Nov 9, 9:43pm
Had never really given much consideration to health risks of soy before - thanks for making the thread. I have always avoided soy sauce due to it being so high in sodium but just looked on Wiki and there appears to be good evidence linking it with cancers etc...

davidt4, Nov 9, 10:13pm
I thought soy sauce was okay because the soy is fermented. Is that not correct?

uli, Nov 9, 11:05pm
Yes it USED to be fermented - so was tofu. However could you imagine how much a proper 5 year old soy sauce would cost per drop?

Not even the organic ones are older than 4 or 6 months now. So use sparingly.

bedazzledjewels, Nov 9, 11:26pm
Uli - what about Tamari sauce? Same thing as with Soy sauce?

visionspring, Nov 9, 11:31pm
Great thread! Definitely check out this book - http://www.wholesoystory.com/

Its best to consume fermented soy, like miso and tempeh.

nickoli2, Nov 12, 5:43am
O dear, I don't agree with that at all. Several months ago when i was trying to be very healthy and switched from cows milk to soy, I ended up in an ambulance being rushed to hospital in the early hours of the morning due to intense cramps brought on by soy milk. I stopped soy and the cramps stopped too. I trialed it the next month and same thing, back in hospital... then I did some research and oh my, what a horror story. Nah, the extraction process is way too scary and I have more than enough estrogen in my system without adding it through phyto-estrogens contained in soy. Maybe some people's constitutions are far less sensitive than me but wow, don't want to go down that track again... . And if you research coconut oil benefits you will find you have been fed a lot of tripe re saturated fats... but hey, the world was flat once too... .

stormbaby, Nov 12, 8:00am
Speaking of websites, the link you posted in #1 is affliated to various other websites including Weston A Price (or perhaps its parent site) advocated the use of raw milk for babies as well as being anti-soy. If you search further, you will find links that direct you to buy various supplements, capsules, formulations, instead of plain, real foods. Regarding the FDA, IMO, they're as corrupted as hell and full with conflict of interests. Im sure we all heard about the diabetes drug Avandia which was approved by FDA while it knew a fair amount of people has died or at a serious health risk from it. Or the COX-2 inhibitors which reportedly killed more Americans than the entire Vietnam War. Speaking of GRAS, the FDA grated GRAS for white bean extract (Phaseolus vulgaris) which seeds containstrypsin and chymotrypsin inhibitors (which is also present in various soy products) and has caused boys from 4-8years to developed symptoms of poisoning.

I won't be the first to defend this soy 'poison' (as most people here seemed to think) and I definately won't be the last. I suppose that every one here is adult. What does it mean to be an adult ? It means that you are mature enough to think by yourself. Don't go around believing things just because some have said that or written it up on an official looking website. Do a search by yourself with evidence supported by facts not anecedotal evidence and by relying on your own capacity of thinking. As the saying goes; one man's meat is another man's poison. [/quote]

I agree that posters need to be careful with scaremongering. This poster has studied the topic, amongst others. If you want to find something negative about any topic, whether its soy or whether its vaccinations, time and time again I see readers of threads directed to certain websites. Just remember people, anyone can post information on the internet. It can be either correct or incorrect and must be taken with a good deal of other information to be put into context. I have whole families of friends brought up on soy with no problems, I have no thoughts about it either good or bad. They did what they had to at the time.
Remember, medical practitioners know a little about a lot of things, whether they be a dietician or a specialist or a GP. I would believe their advice over all others I have read on the good old MB. All their information is not gleaned from websites, they spend years in the "field" and learn from practicing medicine and not reading "facts". Its good to find information, but be very careful of its source.

racheee, Nov 24, 1:42am
I personally would believe information on the Weston A Price website before I would believe information a GP was giving me. To me, the WAPF people are all about the good health of the people and of future generations, and GP's are all about the pills and the money. I am not saying I don't go to a GP occasionally, or think there is no place for them, but honestly, most of them only treat the symptoms and not the cause. Of course there is some rubbish on the internet, but hell, there is a great deal of fantastic information out there too.

yeahright0, Nov 24, 2:02am
I'd better inform my father of this, he thinks soy milk is top notch and no longer drinks milk

uli, Nov 24, 2:50am
Let your father read the stuff on
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/

It really is an eyeopener. Nowadays with the internet it is not so easy any more to keep things secret. People can now chat in forums and check websites and collect info from other people that suffered from certain "food"stuffs ...

buzzy110, Nov 24, 3:37am
My guess is that your father prefers the sweetened taste of soy milk. Odd really, considering men are more savoury animals preferring meat, fats and beer over salads, desserts and tonic water! Maybe it is the watery taste of low fat milk that your father doesn't 'get'. Has he tried a full cream, unhomogenised milk lately?

yeahright0, Nov 26, 10:31pm
No he doesn't not drink it due to the taste, he doesn't drink it due to reading a book outlining negatives of cows milk and positives of soy milk. I have since printed out the info for him to read over lol, and hopefully he will see where I'm coming from

buzzy110, Nov 27, 1:59am
I can see his point though. There is quite a lot wrong with the milk we buy. The most glaring thing is the lack of choice between pasteurised and raw milk there isn't any.

Milk includes two components - Lactose and Lactase. Lactose is the milk sugars and lactase is the enzyme which breaks down the lactose. This is why so many people cannot drink milk - they can't digest the jolly stuff because the enzyme is destroyed in the pasteurisation process.

98% of the milk brands sold in NZ are homgenised and it is probably 100% in American and Britain. This is a process that breaks down the fat particle so that babies won't starve to death if bottle fed. That same fat particle just slips right through the intestinal barrier in adults, straight into the bloodstream where it proceeds to build up in arteries causing damage which our bodies try to heal with a layer of cholesterol. So it is a long term poison, slowly and inexorably setting the scene for artheriosclerosis and cardiovascular disease.

Plus there is always 'pus'. Apparently quite a lot of milk arrives at the works with pus in it. eww.

No wonder your father thinks soy milk is better. However, it is even worse and if he must drink milk then he should stick to unhomogenised, full cream milk, as the lesser of all evils.

natalie9, Nov 27, 3:11am
Hey Buzzy sorry to go off the topic but the peanut allergy thing with pregnancy is no longer... they experts have changed their minds in the past year (since I was pregnant with 2nd last year) and say there is no evidence to suggest eating peanuts can cause allergies although am sure anyone with a peanut allergy won't be eating them (because they wouldn't be able to anyway! )

natalie9, Nov 27, 3:16am
http://www.moh. govt.nz/moh. nsf/pagesmh/4676

buzzy110, Nov 27, 4:10am
Thanks natalie. I wasn't up with the new research. Have just read this link:

http://www.moh. govt.nz/moh. nsf/pagesmh/4676

and it certainly looks like allergies and peanut sensitivities are an inherited disorder, rather than an environmental one. Of course that still doesn't explain why children of non-allergenic parents can sometimes come down with the allergy.

natalie9, Nov 27, 4:37am
I think it just goes to show that research can and often will be disproved in years to come so we just have to do what we think is best based on what we know at the time.

And lets face it, none of us will get out of here alive so if we enjoy a certain type of food, moderation, moderation, moderation...

I've found the soy topic an interesting one... am on the fence myself.

florence14, Nov 27, 12:06pm
Deus - thanks for your posts about soy. I have two toddler granddaughters who have been drinking soy milk since reacting badly to cows milk once they stopped breastfeeding. Their mum is Asian, and in her country soy is the traditional drink for children. She herself was raised on it. Scare stories can do a lot of harm. I agree with you that it is wise to be well informed about nutrition but it is hard for the general public to find reliable scientific information (rather than sources based on anecdote or opinion) on such issues.