The dangers of soy

Wow, to each their own. My daughters brought their (11) children up with soy on cereals only, not to drink and they knew not to give as a formula. The childrenarefine, healthy andintelligent I see nothing wrong with it as looking at them is proof enough how one goes about raising their young ones. Just like it's been said when you are farming and see the conditions of some farms producing themilk, it'senough to churn your stomach andthere will always be those for and against for many reasons. Nut milk is beautiful too.
Alot of food is contaminated one way or another.

To each their own.

I like soy, soymilk, tofu, etc. I think it's all scare mongering. I know some people are soy intolerant (well, sucks for them). I have tried rice milk, etc and I would say it's an acquired tasted. I do disagree with coconut cream being a healthy alternative, that stuff is real fattening especially when used in indian curries.

And did you know the flavonoids in soybean milk can help cut down period pain? (some females report a 20-80% reduction of period pain the first 2 days)

ah duce the dangers of disillusionment... soy has not even received GRAS status... it has GRAS for use in the beauty industry it does not have GRAS for human or animal consumption... Coconut Oils and products are despite what you may think, are NOT actually fattening. the fats in the said oils are biologically different to other saturated fats. . science is on the side of coconut and totally DISPROVES what you think you know about it... science however is NOT on the side of soy... very very far from it.

Deus701 - that really scares me to read that. Have you done any research at all on it? Have you even looked at the website (and there are many many more websites too, that is just a local one) and read anything? Why do you think women get period pain in the first place? There is something not right happening in their bodies. We have pain to alert us to something wrong, and putting more bad things in the body is not going to help.
The only reason the milk industry (in the States anyway, not sure about here) does not alert us to the risks of soy is that they actually own the soy producing industry themselves. They have their fingers in every pie and are making a whole lot of money out of it - probably have their fingers in the health insurance industry too.
Please do some research on the dangers of soy, and also the incredible health benefits of eating saturated fats - could do you a world of good.

Well. . I came from a food science background. In my 2nd and 3rd year of tertiary study, we had to learn much about plant sterols, fats, hormonones, flavonoids, etc and even extracting certain components from them (eg lycopene from tomatoes). And yes, soy was one of the flora we studied. I have read abit about soy on the internet via google (would be ideal if I still had accesss to scientific databases like I had in the past) and did came across a paper which mentioned toxins are still present in soy products due to improper modern commerical processing which the USA uses. Their processing methods are geared towards saving money and time while Asian processing methods are traditional and time consuming.

Modern soy protein foods (soy cheese, soy ice cream, etc) are different from traditional foods (tofu or miso) and may contain carcinogens like nitrates, lysinoalanine, and anti-nutrients which are significantly broken down by fermentation or other traditional processes. They may look like and taste like the real thing, but they do not have the life-supporting qualities of real foods.

Soy protein itself was developed in the laboratories of the Northern Resource Utilisation Centre of the U. S. Dept of Agriculture in the 1950's. The scientists there knew that they were not removing the natural toxins (for instance, sitosterol and genistein), but this was not publicised to consumers, or to the U. S. FDA. This is how it has entered the food chain. I don't believe the link between soy and infertility. The chinese people, who traditionally consume soy, do not have problems with population growth. Babies who are fed a soy-only diet without a vitamin and mineral supplement have a slight chance of going temporarily hypothyroid. This is because soy is one of many foods (broccoli, pears etc) that is a goitrogen and can block iodine from getting into the thyroid to make thyroid hormone. Babies are also taking alot of soy for their bodyweight. Like all things, it is the excess consumption that harms you (eg, you can get dihydrogen monoxide poisoning by taking too much of it which can lead to death) Here's a website for fun reading : http://www.dhmo.org/

Speaking of websites, the link you posted in #1 is affliated to various other websites including Weston A Price (or perhaps its parent site) advocated the use of raw milk for babies as well as being anti-soy. If you search further, you will find links that direct you to buy various supplements, capsules, formulations, instead of plain, real foods. Regarding the FDA, IMO, they're as corrupted as hell and full with conflict of interests. Im sure we all heard about the diabetes drug Avandia which was approved by FDA while it knew a fair amount of people has died or at a serious health risk from it. Or the COX-2 inhibitors which reportedly killed more Americans than the entire Vietnam War. Speaking of GRAS, the FDA grated GRAS for white bean extract (Phaseolus vulgaris) which seeds containstrypsin and chymotrypsin inhibitors (which is also present in various soy products) and has caused boys from 4-8years to developed symptoms of poisoning.

I won't be the first to defend this soy 'poison' (as most people here seemed to think) and I definately won't be the last. I suppose that every one here is adult. What does it mean to be an adult ? It means that you are mature enough to think by yourself. Don't go around believing things just because some have said that or written it up on an official looking website. Do a search by yourself with evidence supported by facts not anecedotal evidence and by relying on your own capacity of thinking. As the saying goes; one man's meat is another man's poison.

Wow, that's a pretty big wall of text.

Anyway, if anyone was wondering WTF dihydrogen monoxide is, it's just another fancy name for water.

"Don't go around believing things just because some have said that or written it up on an official looking website. Do a search by yourself with evidence supported by facts not anecedotal evidence and by relying on your own capacity of thinking. "

Well said deus. And I would add - beware of conspiracy theorists and zealots who retain only the information that suits their particular hobby-horse.

31 years ago baby soy milk by powder was the most disgusting tasting stuff on the planet. .

I totally agree with you on many aspects Deus, there is a huge difference between processed and fermented soy. Fermented soy in small doses is fine, (I believe in traditional cultures it was only about 10% of their diet), but of course baby formula etc is not fermented and not used in small doses. How do you explain boys growing breasts after being fed soy formula as a baby?

Do you not think the Weston A. Price Society is fully behind 'real food'? If I am not mistaken, that is their whole drive and focus. Sure they support various supplements such as fermented cod liver oil etc, but they believe humans need this to function properly. Rather that than the corrupt soy industry any day.

Thanks davidt4, I was feeling a lil bit lonely there haha

Racheee, your definition of 'real food' and Westen A. Price Society's definition of 'real food' can be different. They advocated the feeding of babies with raw milk. Can you imagine that? Feeding your baby raw milk. . what if the cow has mastitis? You would probably heat it up first long enough to kill the bacteria in the milk, but that would be considered as pasteurised milk, not raw milk. Your earlier post quoted Sally Fallon about the possible effects of soy infant formula. Did you know, Sally Fallon is also the president of Westen A. Price Society? The oringinal Western Price was a dentist and a so-called nutritionist (In the USA, the term nutritionist is not a legally protected term. People can call themselves nutritionist without having officially recognised credentials). Sally Fallon has a Masters in the English language. She has no formal qualifications in nutrition either. Being a woman, it's obvious she knows how to use her words, emotive language to capture the attention of Jane Public and create possible paranoia which strike deep in the hearts of mothers all around the world ; which is the safety of their children. Sally did write a book or two which was slammed by people in the scientific community but yet it still sold pretty well.

How about Mary Enig, PhD (vice president of Westen A. P and born in 1931. . which makes her nearly 80 years old today. Would you take nutritional advice from someone that old, whose knowledge is probably not applicable in today's society)According to wikipedia, she admitted that she is "on the fringe" in her nutritional views and advice. Is it based on her own scientific research? No. It's only her views and advice. Have you noticed how her report contains many ubiquitous terms (like possible, may, maybe, suggest, etc) and is based on anecdotal evidence? What is anecdotal evidence? It's defined as evidence based on personal observations usually by unscientific observers rather than systematic scientific evaluation ( Hey, Dave the barman says the world is flat, it must be true cause he never lies! ) . Scientific research articles usually end with something like 'the zeiger studies from 1980-1990 shows that the consumption of xxx gives xxxx to yyyy population'. It is clear cut and straight to the point. What do you think if you read something like this "Drinking more than 2 litres of coco cola 3 times a day may lead to weighloss". How will your brain process that? Are you thinking "Wow! If i drink coca cola, I will lose weight! " ? But then, you probably would stop and think it's rubbish since your common sense tells you coca cola is unhealthy for you. But there will be people who will go "Wow! What a relevation! I never knew that! " and goes out to buy some coca cola. Does this story/scenario sounds familiar?

How will I explain boys developing breasts after being fed soy formula based on anecdotal evidence? Bullshit. Either that or they had consumed too much soy. A baby weights 6-7 kg and if you're going to feed your baby 100mls of soy formula, that would be alot compared to a 70kg boy drinking 100mls. There are also scientific studies that shows boys and girls who was fed soy formula grew up into healthy adults with families. What do you say to that? When comes the time of trial, do you think those who based their 'research' on anecdotal evidence are confident enough to stand up for their views? Or would they be torn apart by those who actually has done real research, and has the scientific evidence to back their claims? Well, maybe Weston A. Price Society was started with good intentions... just like Green Peace (which imo, has become nothing more than thugs now). Well, who knows? Like the saying goes: the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

Anyway, my point is everything should be taken in moderation. Too much can kill you, just like water. You can get water poisoning or water intoxication just by drinking too much. Now does that make water bad? Does that mean water is toxic? Not necessarily.

Also, people in the more developed world are getting too soft. In America, I am not surprised people are getting sick because their environment is too sterile or too clean compared to third world countries.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree, Deus. I certainly believe what Sally Fallon writes and I certainly believe what Mary Enig writes, and for you to say you should not believe what someone says because they are 80 years old - are you serious! ? I think we could all learn a hell of a lot off her. Do you really think we, as human beings, are healthier today than they were 80 years ago? I personally would like to talk to someone 180 years old and learn from them how to eat properly for great health.

I am happy to end this 'argument' here - my intentions were to highlight dangers of soy, (and I still think there is a very real danger) and for people to look into it themselves, so I am going to leave them to do that. I hope people will think twice about using soy, especially when it involves children.

I did not say not to believe what an 80yr old said. That was for you to decide. I would take her advice with a pinch of salt. For example, they would have been eating improperly stored or processed food by today's standards back in the 1950s (Mary's time). Have you noticed how heavy and strong sauces for fish or seafood are in old cookbooks? That's to cover the smell of rotting seafood. There are some dieseases that can kill more people 80years ago than it can today.

Your first post generalised that soy is toxic. My first post in this thread was to say it's not, and to each their own. But your next post in response to me sounded like you're calling me ignorant, and I quote 'Please do some research on the dangers of soy' and so i gave you 'my research' on it. Perhaps it was my oversimplification of things that made you think that way.

But now you're singing a different tune then you had before my 'research' comes in to it so I'll leave it at that. Have a good day ahead.

Recipe please! ! ! ! I would like to make, soy milk.

Do you not get it? if you're a female, you would probably know females best. It's easy for you to phrase your words (especially with a Masters in English) to appeal to other females, to have an emotional connection with them. And what do most women hold dear in their hearts? Their children.

Since I'm a guy and if I were to write an article that appeals to guys, it would revolve around sex and power. If you want researched evidence, surely you're capable enough to find researched evidence by yourself on that right? I didn't take women studies and I don't see how relevant it is to this thread.

hi pickles7, check this link out

http://tinyurl.com/2n22pz

I am so pleased I bought my children up on goats milk, they now use so good, as they both cannot have milk due to skin problems.
Thanks so much for this information

Thanks deus... . would make the Farmer's cringe.

This is an interesting read! I am on soy- have been for the last 6 or so months after going dairy free for my daughter (8 months, breastfed). Mr 3 cannot tolerate soy milk at all- even in small quantities, but he gets eczema from too many 'regular' dairy products.

23 years ago my son had terrible eczema (wet and red, raw and bleeding) over much of his body. He got it when he was 3 months old. I was a first time mother and it was devestating and I spent many a day and night in tears. There was very little info on dairy alternatives then so he was put on Soya milk, became dairy, nut, and egg free. He was much happier and so was I. He hasnt turned out to be GAY and his MALE BITS are certainly not un developed. I think alot of negative comments on these issues make parents feel like they have done something terrible to our children but we did the best with what we had.

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What complete rot! I agree with kinesha - stick to what you're competent to comment on.

Sorry kirinesha for misspelling your user name. I don't seem to be able to edit my previous message to correct it.

First of all, I did stay on subject. Maybe I did sidetrack about the gender thing but I went back to soy in the end (And what exactly are the two of you doing? Have you two contributed anything at all that is relevant? ) For the record, I have also studied psychology and marketing so I do know what I am talking about. I can give you the references and research material to support whatever I have posted but I wouldn't, because I don't gain any benefit from doing so and it is irrelevant to this thread. If you want to continue this argument, start a new thread and I would be happy to discuss it with you but I won't be so kind or polite as I am in this thread.

Before I leave this thread, let me leave you something to think about. *disclaimer* Open to interpretation.

"Never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. "

Oh deus701... I hadn't realised that you are an escapee from TM General. Go and have a nice lie down.

Hi deus701. Have been reading your very verbose posts and whilst I cannot argue the toss on any of it as I haven't done any research on the subject other than to ask myself, "why do we need so much soy when there are other, natural products? ". In fact, if we eliminated processed foods from our diet altogether, apart from those foods that require processing (cheese, wine, beer, spirits, vinegar, fermented soya sauce, for instance) then there really isn't any place in our diet for soy products anyway. What does intrigue me though is your quote - "... the FDA grated GRAS for white bean extract (Phaseolus vulgaris) which seeds contains trypsin and chymotrypsin inhibitors (which is also present in various soy products) and has caused boys from 4-8years to developed symptoms of poisoning. "cont...