It is a good read - but I would like to raise a question about the cavewoman/paleo diet that has been niggling me for a long time - if you are aiming to gain the health of a group of people by imitating thier diet - should you not also imitate thier lifestyle! aincient people needed fat as they did not have insulated, dry homes. They lived a very active hunter/gatherer lifestyle. They did not have office jobs or a car or food sources close to home. They hunted and foraged and ranges long distances to find food. Wild animals are much less fatty then farmed animals so you can see why fat was so valued. You cannot compare a lean deer to your average cattle beast. I agree that it would be awesome for people to go back to their roots in eating an unprocessed diet rich in veges, meat and indeed wholegrain but most do not eat seasonal organic fruit and veges, or wild meats or even whole grains (as in straight from the plant and crushed/cooked). And most poeple do not get the amount of exercise they need, let alone the amount a cavewoman or man would have had. I think any diet should not stand alone.
buzzy110,
Dec 16, 6:02pm
I do not scoff at vegos elli. Show me any post where I have scoffed at vegos who have not first fired an arrow at my preferred lifestyle! What I do is tell of my experience as a vegetarian for 10 years. It was not good. Not everyone has my experience but I only have to read the low iron threads to know that it is not far from the experiences of others. You need to get your facts straight.
I remember you getting self-righteous about the cruelty of farmers and the killing of animals but you eat fish, while conveniently ignoring that commercial fishing is one of the cruelest of all animal harvesting techniques. Even most recreational fishers show an incredible level of insensitivity and cruelty toward their catch. I, on the other hand use very humane fish handling techniques.
miri_s,
Dec 16, 6:06pm
Thanks by the way vmax.I must admit right now the idea of any highly structured eating plan is abhorrent to me.This is because, in part, such a regime got me into my current state.Perhaps however I will in fact need some kind of "diet" in order to feel safe about weight gain.Of course with eating disorders, recovery involves a lot more than simple weight gain-----
buzzy110,
Dec 16, 6:10pm
On the face of it, you appear to be making some very valid points but lets consider this: The human condition evloved to thrive best and maintain optimal health on a paleo/caveman type diet. Just because we no longer live in the conditions they once did, it does not follow that our metabolism or anatomy can suddenly change from a diet rich in primary, unprocessed foods to that of techno grains, sugar, processed foods, low in healthy fats and high in chemically extracted fats and expect to stay healthy. Rising diabetes, cancer, cardio-vascular and auto-immune diseases have proven that.
If we do not follow a diet that we evolved to follow and the alternative is making us seriously sick, what would you suggest we live on!
vmax2,
Dec 16, 6:39pm
jcsolgier - about imitating cavewomen lifestyle.To a certain extent I am.My kids tell me I have my own gym at home just with the farm work I do here.I do not work in an office but have a lifestyle block where I actively pursue an income from my animals.I walk, run, lift, dig, get fresh air, get challenged on a daily basis here.I have a vege garden, fruit trees and berry bushes, our own milk and meat.To me that is cavewomen type of lifestyle, but I don't go hunting animals like my ancestors did.As I understand it my cavewomen ancestors when they did kill an animal they went for the animals with the most fat and ate the liver and kidneys etc in preference to the lean meat that is eaten today.
vmax2,
Dec 16, 6:45pm
miri - you may well find having a strong probiotic will be enough to help you in your quest for health.This is what I mean about tweaking the diet.I am on the Gut and Psychology Diet which is basically a low carb healing diet addressing health issues which have their origins in the gut.The diet is written by a doctor - Dr Natasha Campbell-McBride.She has a whole chapter written on eating disorders in it which you may find interesting.
knowsley,
Dec 16, 7:28pm
Miri_s, you will find Buzzy has no middle ground, that everything is taken to an extreme. She doesn't understand that people can eat in moderation, that millions of people can exist very happily and healthily with a diet that includes sugars and grains without these being in excess. For the majority of people that are in a calorie deficit or at maintenance levels, these things present no real problems. She seems to believe there are only two types of diets, low fat and low carb, and according to her, low fat doesn't work. She, more often that not, will dismiss any scientific studies in favour of the dubious statements made by the authors she believes in.If you ever ask her to back up these statements, as I have often done, the silence is deafening.
Welcome aboard! It's always great to read posts from someone who has an interest in the scientific aspect of nutrition.
uli,
Dec 16, 11:23pm
And I reckon that anything "in moderation" is so boring that I lose interest very quickly. I go for all or nothing. I am not interested in "millions of moderate people". I am interested in the extreme highs - and lows - and that is what I experience. So if you want to be a moderate knowsley - then good for you, I will be an extreme uli :)
elliehen,
Dec 16, 11:32pm
Whatever you do, everyone, I beg you.do NOT Google 'extreme uli'.
uli,
Dec 16, 11:38pm
Extremely good joke ellie - keep it up - that made my day :) Especially since I do not have the required "thing" . being a girl and all :)
uli,
Dec 16, 11:39pm
. and in "Recipes" too - must get deleted quickly girls - DO text each other will ya .to get the required numbers :)
jcsolgier,
Dec 16, 11:39pm
I was referring to suggestions about eating animal fats and saturated fats as this is what ancestral people ate to keep warm and deliver loads of energy. I believe most poeple no longer need to do this as,, simply, they do not have the same energy requirements. As I have said, I am not a supporter of a diet high in simple sugars and processed foods.
uli,
Dec 16, 11:39pm
. you know how to do this cooks, ellie etc.
jcsolgier,
Dec 16, 11:41pm
I am so envious of your lifestyle - that is my exact long term goal - living as simply and self-sufficiently as possible. Substituting fat-rich foods for lean foods is a very appropriate way of following the cavewoman diet, I think.
Yep you are right there - however we still need to eat a certain amount of saturated fats simply to keep the brains working. If you google you will find that vegetarians and vegans have shrinked brains due to not having enough animal fat (=saturated). I laughed the first time I read about it years ago (thinking it was joke), but since I have found it in many research articles.
uli,
Dec 16, 11:45pm
You will get there, as I did . and many others.
We live simply and quietly (except if I post here and get up everybodies noses) and happily.
What greater fun than to sit on the deck in the sun in the morning (today it was 6.30am) with freshly harvested blueberries and raspberries for breakfast with some Greek Yoghurt made from my Mini cows milk, then off into the garden.
Great!
vmax2,
Dec 16, 11:47pm
Maybe our ageing population wouldn't be so decrepit if they had lots of saturated fat in their diet.Heard someone in their 40's today generalising about people his age feeling tired and not having the same energy as a 20 year old.I have more energy now than I did in my 20's when I was on a low fat diet.If people are not undertaking a physical job but they go to a gym then they also need lots of saturated fat.Saturated fat is a repairer.Maybe senility wouldn't happen so much if the low fat diet was not the fashion.Saturated fat heals and makes us feel good - goodbye depression.Good for joints, I could go on and on.
vmax2,
Dec 16, 11:49pm
Uli, what breed of cows do you have.Must have missed the fact that you have cows too.
elliehen,
Dec 16, 11:55pm
If you Google, for every spurious link about 'shrinked' [sic] brains, you'll find another saying that their brains are superior.
Both extremes are specious.
jcsolgier,
Dec 16, 11:57pm
It sounds simply gorgeous - When I was younger my parents had a lifestyle that was semi like that. Of course I whinged about having to milk Rosie but hey, I was clueless about how blessed we truely were. One day I will have land, chooks, and orchard, gardens and livestock. But until then will have to make do with potted garden and worm farm lol
We do need some saturated fats - but not as much as most people eat (reflects on roast dinner guiltily)
uli,
Dec 16, 11:58pm
I used to have a Jersey house cow - lovely fat for sure - but such fussy eaters.
So after my accident when I considered having another milking animal (besides the goats) I did a lot of research.
One book said that Belted Galloways were used as house cows (dual purpose breed) way back in England I think (or was it Scotland or even Ireland . don't ask).
But I thought that I would much rather have a little herd than a solitary sad house cow again and so the mini's became an option.
I then visited several studs around NZ and then bought 2 girls and an unrelated boy and now we even have some offspring for sale . and since I will not advertise my "wares" on the message board you will have to be clever enough to click onto my name to check it out LOL :)
uli,
Dec 17, 12:01am
It just means you will have to sprint a bit tomorrow :) Run towards you next meal really fast, then amble along for a bit because you want to see what's there for gathering - then sprint away from that tiger really fast . and most of the fat will have been used up :)
Have you ever thought of a community farm rather than having to wait for ever to get "your own"!
elliehen,
Dec 17, 12:01am
I saw your baby kunes the other day.very cute, but mine would have to remain a pet for the term of its natural life and not become the roast dinner you suggest.Must see if they're still there.
jcsolgier,
Dec 17, 12:02am
Rosie was a jersey - totally different flavored milk with gorgeous cream. Your galloways are gorgeous.
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