Vegan kickstart: 21 day intro to vegan health: Page 1 / 2

ac_nz, Feb 26, 8:45am
http://support. pagename=21day_vegan

Some great cruelty free recipies and healthy diet tips. .


frances1266, Feb 26, 7:51pm
Great idea. Have been reading a lot on vegan diets recently and it seems serious disease like multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis etc respond wonderfully to a vegan diet according to scientific trials.
I especially like cruelty free eating. Delicious meat free recipes are easily available by googling. No need to eat meat at all.

bedazzledjewels, Feb 26, 8:17pm
Please, I beg you, read a book called "The Vegetarian Myth" by Lierre Keith. Just google her - there are some good online interviews with her.
The book is available at many public libraries.

darlingmole, Feb 26, 9:18pm
hey bedazzledjewels ... I think I've seen you mention that book before. So is being vegetarian not as healthy as it's cracked up to be? (I have limited time to read books so just want to know the general gist of the book)

bedazzledjewels, Feb 26, 9:25pm
Hello Darlingmole.
If you can spare about 50 minutes, listen to this interview with her:

If you want to read a review of her book:

bedazzledjewels, Feb 26, 9:26pm
There are many other reviews out there - just google her name.
It's some of the best writing I've ever read.

bedazzledjewels, Feb 26, 9:55pm
Here she is Darlingmole -- beautiful writing -

"“Somewhere inside you is an animal that wants to eat. There’s no dishonour in that animal. She’s the same animal who wants to curl up around her sleeping beloveds, to keep them safe and warm. She’s an animal who belongs here.
She’s four million years old. She’s in the shape of your teeth, the empty bowl of your one stomach. She’s in your stalwart heart, a hundred years strong surrounded by animal fat. She’s in the folds of your brain and the messages they can carry. Across four million years those folds grew exquisite, until the messages needed an answer. Your animal found language, art. She answered. She drew what mattered. Go look. The pictures are still there. She left them, for you; take, eat, this is the body we have made, predator and prey together. This is the pact, the prayer, our first true communion, not wine, but blood: we are all part of each other. ”

bedazzledjewels, Feb 26, 10:15pm
One more thing, then I'm out of here!
Posters #1 and 2 - I totally respect your rights to decide on how you want to eat.
I just ask that you get as informed as you can be when coming to your decision.
And that you then take on the responsibilty of how your decision will affect your own health.
Good luck to you both.

ac_nz, Feb 26, 10:30pm
Sounds like the usual Christian rot to me. Shape of teeth? compare your mouth to a dogs. see any differences? They are called canines but they are nothing like a canines canines. Can you honestly rip flesh with those? Ours are more like the great apes, who are incidently plant eaters? so if we have two teeth for cutting and a whole mouthfull for grinding , I guess 95% of our teeth are pointless? Our one stomach is indeed not for grass, but there are more plants than grass in this world. Our intestine is very long though, like a herbivore. A dogs is however very short as digestion of meats is done quickly as its rot is more bacteria prone than plant matter.
Whats natural about factory farming? Intensive dairy battery chickens, sow crates? Artificial insemination? Automated slaughter? Another way of looking at it scientifically is that a puppy or kittens mouth waters at bloodshed. How does your child naturally react?

As we are omnivores, we have choices. However seperate to all other omnivores we are conscious of the cruelty and uneccesary suffering and abuse when we choose meat. People who comsume meat will come up with all kinds of rot to justify their selfishness, and not many stop and break it down for themselves. When you do you can see that indeed its a massive scam, andanimals are sufferring and dying for meat industry profits.

As poetic as that sounds, its still saying hearts should stop beating, when they dont need to. Lets not discuss health/environment/deforestati-
on/land misuse/antibiotics/etc.

Money talks. We reward who for doing what?

Heres a good perspective, with humor, to balance bedazzledjewels call for more bloodshed: v=nkYdx7n4nF8

uli, Feb 27, 12:01am
ac_nz - it is ok if you want to ruin your own health (we taxpayers will pick up the tab later for you) - however if you are cooking for others then please read Lierre Keiths book! I fear it is not humorous though - and it will hit you hard.

I have no desire to debate the shape of your teeth or the length of your intestines - however as someone who lives on the land and eats what is produced I can say that I have my animals free ranging on many acres - and there is no cruelty whatsoever.

To infer that everyone who eats meat is cruel and everyone else who eats annual grains is saving the world is just hilarious and shows me how little info people have on what their actions actually do to the world around them.

I could give you lots of info on how your annual grains are actually destroying more of nature than a cow that has been eating grass on permanent pasture. However you will only hear what you want to - so I won't bore you with facts.

If you really want to learn more - then do read the above book - it is the best summary I have ever come across of what humans do in their ignorance.

Good luck!

ac_nz, Feb 27, 4:20am
Actually its your cancers and heart disease that I will be paying for, in fact. I dont expect you to debate science, because your greed is in the way.

So you kill your animals, yet no cruelty is involved? Wakey wakey dear, slaughter by its very nature is violent. That's why in human law, murder is a more serious crime than assault. Its ok to kill animals, but not hurt them, is actually quite a backward way of thinking if you really stop and think about it.

Heres an excerpt from "Livestocks long Shadow" A 2006 UN report on land use:

There is also the question of efficiency. Here is a scale of food energy stored for human use, given a constant of 1. 0 for beef and mutton:
BEEF -- 1. 0
MUTTON-- 1. 0
MAIZE -- 5. 4
WHEAT-- 10. 0
BARLEY -- 11. 6
OATS-- 15. 5
BEANS--4. 5
RICE -- 30. 0
POTATOES-- 27. 9
Here are the production figures per acre per day, of protein in each respective food:
BEEF -- 2. 0 oz
MUTTON -- 1. 6 oz
MAIZE -- 4. 7oz
WHEAT -- 8. 6 oz
BARLEY -- 7. 7 oz
OATS -- 11. 5 oz
BEANS -- 8. 7 oz
RICE -- 15. 0 oz
POTATOES -- 18. 5 oz

The impact of crop farming, therefore, is less than for animal farming, since far fewer resources are wasted for human food production. And, of course, by using organic farming methods, no chemicals are pumped onto the crops.

So Uli I put it to you that not only are you cruel, but you aren't managing your land very well.

uli, Feb 27, 5:21am
See this is the problem I tried to make clear to you earlier: You have not the slightest idea about farming and sustainable land use. Not to speak about nutrition.

You just try and twist something you have read somewhere into the shape and form that fits with your ideology. Unfortunately this ideology has nothing to do with reality.

If you would read medical research then you would, for example, know that a grain based diet high in carbohydrates is what causes heart disease, cancer and diabetes, not eating meat and eggs and animal fats. With the diet you suggest here you get so little omega3 fatty acids that you most likely will get cancer sooner or later. This is all medical research which you can read in books and on the net.

If you would know anything about sustainable land use then you would know that grasslands and food forestry are the only sustainable land uses. Farming annuals like your above grains is destroying the topsoil on which you rely to actually do your farming.

It also releases huge amounts of CO2 in the atmosphere every time you plow, not to mention the huge pollution from all the machinery you use to plow, sow and harvest.

This method of farming is not sustainable at all. Once cheap oil is gone farming as we know it will be gone too, as we need cheap oil to grow grains and we need cheap fertilizer (oil again) to grow anything at all now, since we destroyed most of the worlds topsoils.

As I said your ideas are nice - but they only work in your head, they have nothing at all to do with reality unfortunately.

For example you cannot do organic farming in the long run either, because it is not sustainable. You cannot take crops away from a place and not replace the nutrients. That is very simple basic arithmetic - you need to put something back once you remove something.

And I can assure you that I do manage my land extremely well - in fact it is already in much better shape than when I bought it, simply because I have some knowledge about it.

bohemian4, Feb 27, 6:00am
Oh my! ! Please don't use American data. They don't have a clue about producing or eating healthy, low energy food.

mamapossum, Feb 27, 6:21am
Very pleased to live where I do, and have the choices that I have... I have chosen to be vegan, and I am glad that this choice is afforded to me. I am also glad that others are afforded the choice of eating whatever they please; although eating meat is not a choice I make, I interpret ahimsa (or violence free living) to include not enforcing my beliefs upon others (probably not a popular interpretation, but it is one I feel spiritually).

Thank you for the yummy link!

xxx Lou

marielize1, Feb 27, 6:22am
It is quite important to understand the "data/dogma" ac-nz is presenting. Firstly you need to look at nutrients rather than just foods. You could live a looong time on a kilo of meat and get ALL the nutrients your body needs. Not so for a kilo of any plant product. You WILL starve on a cellular level.

Secondly the data presented above is from the cruel and unnatural way America grows beef by first farming corn/soy (which is like genocide, killing everything down to insect level for hundred of sq kilometers for a mono crop) . Which is then transported to where it is force fed to cattle in cubicles! ! !

If cattle are farmed like nature intended, eating grass, they basically fertilise as they feed and can easily be incorporated between islands of native bush and it is very posible to keep other animals (mammels, reptiles, insects, birds) in the circle of life. Just google images of "corn field" look at it and think how it could possibly be good for the planet. All that will be left when the soy, barley, corn wheat fields are gone is desert or highly degraded soil.

ac_nz, Feb 27, 7:40am
So its official, the United Nations doesnt have a clue. .

So what most of you are saying is that there is either happy cows living in meadows (what really happens to little male calves anyone? ), or monocrop/chemical laden American grown GE soy? I think that argument is called a false dichotomy. You really are strong advocates of unnecessary killing. I guess you must be quite important people to ask for animal sacrifices in your name.

Just dont call your self animal lovers.
xxx No worries. I think the freedom of choice stance is valid, but only if we all have freedom of choice, including the victim. they have no choice, whereas we have all the choice in the world.

Its cruelty or kindness, and we vote with our dollar.
Its just a meal for us, but life itself for them. .

Every meal counts!


phil.lyn, Feb 27, 8:34am
That excerpt is just bizarre and deliberately misleading bedazzledjewels. Do you realize that the vey words and language of the last sentences are written to imitate words from the Bible? This same Bible that they are mimiking states in the first couple of chapters that God made 'seed bearing plants for our meat'. The author obviously has some 'beef' lol with the scriptural account and has decided to offer very loosely strung together and highly emotional illogical reasons for eating what the Creator has told us is not for food.

hezwez, Feb 27, 10:12am
If you want to be as strong as an ox eat what an ox eats. Thanks ac_nz

uli, Feb 27, 8:18pm
Good luck with that. Hope you can digest it just as well as an ox.

hezwez, Feb 27, 8:51pm
How sweet of you uli, to care about my digestion. yes, thanks, my greens digest just fine, way better than the actual ox would, that you may prefer.

uli, Feb 27, 10:24pm
Well an ox doesn't eat "greens" - he eats grass!
That's why I wished you good luck in digesting grass!

ac_nz, Feb 27, 11:28pm
That reminds me of another similar saying- I'll wing it as I havent got it saved .

The Farmer tells me I can never be fit and strong on plants, you need meat to be fit and strong, as he plods along behind his ox- who eats plants and pulls the heavy plough that moves the even heavier earth with ease.


fruitluva2, Feb 28, 12:00am
While I like some meat this sounds so off- putting, blerk. And you may as well add cats, dogs etc to the menu which some countries do with relish. The only difference is in NZ it would not be pc with all the animal lovers.

elliehen, Feb 28, 12:11am
Go further - add in some two-legged animals? ? As for 'beautiful writing' ... . BLERK BLERK BLERK!

fruitluva2, Feb 28, 12:28am
Nevertheless it sounds gross and turning me off meat slowly but surely.

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