Vegan Recipes!

hi fitness_shack , motorbo :)

I live in Invercargill, and have not met any other Vegans here, although there are quite a few apparently! I keep in touch with friends around the world, just last night I stayed up until 2am talking with friends over Skype, in the USA, Ireland, Australia and other parts of NZ. Theres only way way to meet new Vegan people, get out there and spread Veganism! :)I've only been truly Vegan for a year and half odd now, I figured things out for myself, gradually, for the longest time I would drink Soymilk but have products containing milk, it seemed EVERYTHING contained milk in NZ... . for example, cornchips, why would there be milk included? Just another way to add fat? Gladly, things have changed, and products such as Bluebird Salt and Vinegar chips are now Vegan, they removed milk from that flavour, I had been eating "other" brands of chips before then.

I understand there are many health benefits linked with Veganism, there are many Vegan bodybuilders that I've heard of, including some in NZ: http://www.healthybody-building.com/wawcs0143785/about_dusan
.html

"The Engine 2 Diet" is also interesting, basically a group of US firefighters decided to be Vegan for health reasons, and had amazing results : http://engine2diet.com/So often Veganism is seen for "whiny women who like kitties and woof woofs", you dont get much "manlier" than firemen :)

I promote Veganism solely for ethical reasons, I grew up with animals as my friends, I've always rescued drowning worms (after rain, in street gutters etc), putting them back onto lawns so they can live, why would I pay someone to hurt and kill animals for me? I could NEVER do it myself, I could never deliberately hurt an animal.

One thing I have trouble with is how people tend to seen animals as "things", perhaps cats, dogs, dolphins and whales are "special", "oh, those awful whalers for killing Whales! ", but pigs, sheep and chickens are overlooked, because we've grown up this way!

I place a lot of emphasis on the Chickens I look after, I've cared for many unwanted animals in the past, now I love and look after my "Chicken Friends".

Chickens are very social and loving animals, as all birds are, hello, "Mother Hen" anyone? :)And yet, just under 50 Billion chickens are killed each year. I have people who visit and ask to pat my little friends in the back yard, who then go straight to KFC... . its very upsetting, there is nothing special about the Chickens I know and love, and any other animal killed for our enjoyment.

I know Chickens are special!

(a video I've made)
http://bit. ly/chickensax

Photos of my little friends at just a few days old
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaywontdart/sets/72157622983995
776/

I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say about health issues fitness_shack

Have a great Thursday guys :)

I don't think veganism is 'extreme'. I would go as far as saying adult humans drinking milk designed for growing baby cows a tad extreme though!

Going vegan/vegetarian just requires a bit of self-education in learning and adapting to eating different types of foods. Of course there is such a thing as a poor vegan diet, but that could be said about any diet.

I see you are at it again promoting a book that is full of absolute lies and propaganda:

The Claim: Lierre claims that grazed animal farming/polyculture can feed nine people per ten acres. (P. 101)

In Reality: Lierre lists the food produced on a 10 acre perennial polyculture. Her numbers are based on Michael
Pollan's exposition of Joel Salatin's Polyface Farm in The Omnivore's Dilemma, and are arrived at by dividing the
numbers for Salatin's 100 acres of grass by 10. But Pollan explains at great length (P. 222-225) that the 100 acres of
grass is really 550 acres because the adjacent 450 acres of forest are essential to the health of the farm.
Accordingly, ten acres of land actually feed about two people rather than her estimate of nine. Lierre says that if
you live in New England you should eat what grows there. However, with this level of productivity, you couldn't
feed all of New England on all the land in New England.

The Claim: "I built my whole identity on the idea that my life did not require death... Did the lives of nematodes and
fungi matter? Why not? Because they were too small for me to see? " (P. 18, discussed throughout the book)

In Reality: This is a straw man argument. These views are not held by most vegans. The goal of veganism is to
eliminate direct, unnecessary suffering at the hands of humans -- not to magically end all death. Why shouldn't the
cow with its undeniable ability to suffer take precedence over plants and organisms with limited or non-existent
nervous systems such as the nematodes Keith frets about in this book?

The Claim: Lierre claims that sustainable farming is not possible without domesticated livestock. "I would need
domesticated animals—their labor and the products of their bodies—to farm sustainably. I needed their manure
and their unspeakable bones, their inconceivable blood. " (P. 58)

In Reality: How then does she explain the success of vegan organic agriculture in the UK and US, where no animal
inputs are used? How does she explain that the most successful organic CSA in the country actually uses no animal
products on their fields (Honey Brook Farm in New Jersey)?

(cont)

The Claim: "Understand: agriculture was the beginning of global warming. Ten thousand years of destroying the
carbon sinks of perennial polycultures has added almost as much carbon to the atmosphere as industrialization, an
indictment that you, vegetarians, need to answer. No one has told you this before, but that is what your food—
those oh so eco-peaceful grains and beans—has done. " (P. 250)

The Reality: Much of Lierre's book is borrowed from Richard Manning, a well-respected environmentalist and
author. Manning understands that human dependence on grain monoculture is not a result of the small
percentage of concerned people who decide to be vegetarian, but is rather a historical mistake of which we all
share the burden of repairing. Despite Lierre's insistence, vegans do not need to eat grains nor any sort of annual
crop. Why did she target vegans when compared to average corn-fed Americans, vegans consume much less grain?
On the topic of climate change, Lierre fails to address that regardless of type of feed or forage, ruminant animals
emit an abundance of methane. She, along with other grass-fed proponents, point out that growing pasture
sequesters carbon in the subsoil and claim that farms like Polyface are carbon-neutral. However, she ignores the
fact that soil only retains a limited quantity of carbon—once pasture is healthy, it is carbon stable. Any pasture-
based livestock production contributes, pound-for-pound of meat, to climate change as much (if not more) than
conventional livestock production—an indictment that you, Lierre, need to answer.

The Claim: "We’ve been doing what we’ve been endlessly badgered to do since the 1960s. We’ve eaten, according
to the USDA, less fat, less meat, fewer eggs. Our dietary fat has fallen 10 percent, hypertension has dropped 40
percent and the number of us with chronically high cholesterol has declined 28 percent. " (P. 203)
In Reality: Americans eat more meat now than in the 1960s according to the USDA
(http://tinyurl.com/USDAstats1-
). While the average percentage of calories from dietary fat consumption has
decreased, dietary fat intake increased from 135 g to 178 g from 1960 to 2006 (http://tinyurl.com/USDAstats2-
).

ghfghgf

The Claim: "We owe our bodies what we owe the world; we must inhabit both and, in the act of inhabiting, nourish
both. This food must also be an apology for what my kind has done, and part of the repair. It must protect this land,
and extract from me the promise of more. My food is those things, all of them. It’s based on the forests and grasses

that nestle this planet in soil and air. " (P. 271)
In Reality: Lierre's own blog posts demonstrate that she can't stick to her own ideals. She has posted entries where
she raves about the perfection of grain-fed pork and happily offers a bucket of mass-produced, processed
chocolate laden with factory-farmed dairy to trick-or-treaters last Halloween. If this is what she'll post on her own
blog, what other unsustainable foods is she eating? (http://tinyurl.com/lierre1, http://tinyurl.com/lierre2)

(cont)

The Claim: "... there are no good plant sources of tryptophan. On top of that, all the tryptophan in the world won’t
do you any good without saturated fat. " And later Keith blames the lack of tryptophan in vegetarian diets for
depression, insomnia, panic, anger, bulimia and chemical dependency. (P. 10)

In Reality: A cup of roasted soybeans contains nearly three times the adult RDA of tryptophan and a cup of pretty
much any other bean will get you between 50-60% of the RDA. Two tablespoons of coconut oil more than meet the
adult saturated fat RDA. Nuts, dark chocolate and avocado are all rich in saturated fat.

The Claim: "Sixty grams of soy protein—that’s one cup of soy milk—contains 45 mg of isoflavones. " (P. 215)

In Reality: The soy milks available in supermarkets have about 6 to 11 grams of soy protein per cup. According to
Lierre’s often-cited Weston A. Price Foundation, a cup of soy milk contains only 20 mg of isoflavones.

The Claim: "I am of this world, carbon and breath like my parents, my siblings, the creatures great and small,
single-celled or green, that create the miracle the rest of us consume. They gave me this body and the air it needs,
the food it eats. All they ask is that I take my place, a predator, dependent and beholden, until I am prey. " (p. 271)

In Reality: The animals humans consume are quite literally prey, but unless Keith intends to be eaten by a wild
animal, her claim of being "prey" is a specious one based on her decomposition. She considers this a repayment to
the biosphere for its kindness in feeding her, but that same repayment is unacceptable from edible animals.

The Claim: Lierre claims that "Researchers from Cornell showed that E. Coli 0157:H7 could be stopped by a very
simple action: feeding cows hay for the last five days of their lives. " (P. 99)

In Reality: In the study Lierre refers to, the researchers showed that overall E. Coli levels (i. e. including strains other
than 0157:H7) in three cows were decreased by feeding the cows hay for five days. They conjectured that 0157:H7
levels would be similar. However, subsequent research suggests that grass-fed beef does not have lower levels of
0157:H7 (http://www.slate.com/id/22422-
90/pagenum/all/).

The Claim: Lierre claims that "Researchers from Cornell showed that E. Coli 0157:H7 could be stopped by a very
simple action: feeding cows hay for the last five days of their lives. " (P. 99)

In Reality: In the study Lierre refers to, the researchers showed that overall E. Coli levels (i. e. including strains other
than 0157:H7) in three cows were decreased by feeding the cows hay for five days. They conjectured that 0157:H7
levels would be similar. However, subsequent research suggests that grass-fed beef does not have lower levels of
0157:H7 (http://www.slate.com/id/22422-
90/pagenum/all/).

The only thing worth taking from The Vegetarian Myth is the idea that the simple act of going vegan automatically
solves all problems with our food production. That said, it is still the easiest and most substantial immediate action
a person can take on the path to a sustainable lifestyle. True, some vegans and organizations do exaggerate the
ecological benefits of eating highly processed, conventionally-grown vegan food; however, a balanced plant-based
diet of mixed perennial and annual fruits, vegetables, nuts and legumes is far more sustainable than any diet based
on ruminant, energy-hungry, greenhouse-gas emitting livestock.

Gracious ferita :)Thats one heck of an entry! Perhaps its better to link to this (if its copied from a website) or make a blogpost somewhere else and link to it here, if its your own writing.

I'm just trying to keep this friendly. In the Farming thread, there are already hints that civility is breaking down... I'm ignoring it so far. Its best that we stay away from anything that could upset or galvanise people reading our posts here.

I think its fair to say that I disagree with Keith, although I *DO* resent how she was treated at some book promotion, some group threw a (dairy free) CREAM PIE containing pepper in her face... she was so embarrassed and confused... . Veganacious speaks of this on Episode 2(Please No Pies), including clips of Keith. Many Vegans spoke out about how she was treated, I wouldnt throw a pie in anyones face to embarrass them, even if I disagreed strongly with that person.

http://veganacious.com/category/portfolio/

You can search for " Veganacious " on iTunes to get that episode, I highly recommend EVERYONE here listen.

Have a great day!

Good for you to be going vegan - is nice to hear of such caring people.
There are plenty of tasty vegan meat subs around now which are good when you need a quick meal. Asian supermarkets have a good selection of faux chicken, ham etc. Bryanna Clark Grogan's website Notes from the Vegan Feast Kitchen has lots of information on veganism and heaps of fantastic recipes.
Not sure where you are but there are vegan societies in some parts of the country who will be very supportive and helpful.

It wouldnt matter. Uli and the other psuedo science loving, pro meat fanatics come into all the vegetarian and vegan threads and spread their absolute mistruths and rubbish. They wont read any links you post.

good luck Bellasmoon, wish you all all the best from a staunch vegetarian (boardering on vegan)You CAN live a long healthy life without meat don't let the pro-meaters tell you otherwise. After 27 years of not eating meat and raising a 20 year old son who has never had meat in his life we are just fine! You will feel much better, less weighed down and with the choice in the supermarkets it is easy to get the daily needs your body wants. Heaps of recipes on the net.

im not anti vegan, but how can fake meats be healthy for you

As a vegan, I've never understood the whole fake meats thing, I can see them as useful for someone who's maybe transitioning but why would a vege/vegan want to eat something that tastes like meat?

True, I don't know any vegetarians in my circle of influence who actively seeks out fake meat products, why would we? Defeats the purpose really why chow down on something that looks, tastes, smells of chicken?

I went to a asian vegetarian restaurant once and had a "lamb" curry. I was wondering for ages about how they made that lamb. I eventually asked the waiter and it turn out the lamb was just mushroom stalks that had been smoked and dried. It had a very meaty texture and was delicious.

I suppose because lots of people that go veg/vegan do it for moral reasons, not because they dislike the taste of meat.

I personally was never much of a fan of meat when I did eat it, but I love places like Rulei in West Auckland, with all types of terribly unhealthy deepfried fake meat concoctions!

Oh and as a post script, going vegan seriously? Prepare to loose the booze! (well some of it anyway)The fining process in making wine uses animal products, and these products don't have to be declared on the bottle either.
Brewmasters, winemakers, and distillers may include animal ingredients in their products directly, or they might use them in the processing and filtration.
When making the product, dairy, honey, and other things (including, in one case, a whole chicken dropped in the tank) are ingredients in the final recipe.
When filtering the drinks prior to bottling, companies can use things like isinglass (from fish bladder, ) gelatin, egg whites, and sea shells, among other things. These products grab onto the impurities and make it easier to catch them in the filters, though there are many animal-free alternatives in use.
These ingredients don't usually show up on the label, so the only way to find out is to ask.
Isinglass - Sourced from the swim bladder of the Sturgen fish
Gelatin - Sourced from the hooves and tendons of cattle
Albumin - Egg white, and you can guarantee they aren't free range
Casein - A product sourced from animal milk.
Yum! !
Spirits are ok though!

Haha - just to blow your bubble ferita - my thesis was about "alternative eating" - and this included vegetarians, vegans, macrobiotics etc etc.

And believe it or not - I ate according to these guidelines for several years.

However - I felt that I was getting not enough nutrients from just veges and beans - and so embarked on a lifelong interest of how humans evolved and what did they eat originally (long before dairy cows and calves etc that poster #1 seems to worry about mainly got "invented") ... .

so yeah - here you go ...

and to add to this : Poster #1 has a genuine interest at heart - which has nothing to do with your personal hatred of Lierre Keith ... I know very well how the Vegans were co-ordinating their chilli-pie smashing - weeks before the event via several vegan forums. Lierre actually got told that is was not safe for her to speak there - but she never believed that Vegans would be so **** (fit in what you feel like) ... she could not see for several days and had to be led off by complete strangers ... Great advertising for the whole of the vegan world ferita - don't you think?

fronta1 - there are vegan wines made in NZ. Wrights from Gisborne being one. I don't drink so I haven't ever investigated which others also are, but they do exist.

Plus fake meat does have its place. Especially for young kids. When all the other kids are eating sausages, a vege sausage goes a long way to helping your child fit in.

Being German, I would have thought you had realised that the actions of some should not tar the rest.

The director of the organisation Uli promotes died of a stroke before he reached 40. Commonsense as well as years of research have shown a vegan diet to be the healthiest.
I have bumped up a vegetarian thread that contains good vegan recipes.
Faux meats are tasty, convenient and are healthier than many animal products. Not to be eaten at every meal of course but convenient on many occasions.

In response to "you cant drink wine! " or that its difficult, Vegan. fm has a great resource, where you can enter in/select a name of a product to see if its Vegan, or "Not Vegan".

http://vegan. fm/isitvegan/doku. php? id=alcohols

Adam Kochanowicz also made an iPhone app , iVegan which contains that, and other information.

Anyone interested in Veganism, and any Vegans here, please listen to Podcasts for more information ,

http://bit. ly/veganpodcastinfo

Good tip about the wines, as Mata Beer is the only known beer I have heard off in NZ that promotes itself vegan. I will check out Wrights wine as I love my wine rather than beer, but in an emergency will resort to vodka!

Yechh! I am reminded - regardless of the truth or falsehood of what Lierre Keith writes - of the self-indulgent, quasi-poetic, embarrassingly emotive prose Lierre Keith wallows in.

Maybe in her day job she is part of the advertising industry.

You mean like I am Elliehen?

Are you? ? I have never thought to look at your profile. Is your occupation there?

I do hope if you ever write that LC cookbook, you won't have 'author' Lierre Keith as your benchmark ;)