waihinetoa - by now you will have read a lot about people's views on vegetarianism and opposing veiwpoints. You will have noticed that the vegetarians, rather than presenting an informed argument to refute the biological facts presented by those who are 'against vegetarianism', have chosen to resort to name calling, ranting and basically trying to discredit a book, by giving it the wrong name and saying it is rubbish, without outlining exactly what parts of the book actually are rubbish.
The Vegetarian Myth was written by a lass who became a vegan from the age of about 16 and by the time she was in her mid 30's she had contracted irreversible ailments that she really regrets. She also pointed out how, instead of being kind on the planet, vegetarianism is actually more damaging.
However, if you choose not to read the book that is OK. I would like to suggest at least one book that you can read and be absolutely certain that the author has the weight of a sound medical background. It is a book by Dr Robert Bernstein and is called Dr Bernstein's Diabetic Solution. He says nothing about vegetarianism or herbivourism at all. What the book does present in the clearest of detail, is exactly why you become diabetic and how to avoid it as well as how to treat it. His science exactly matches those posts about insulin.
If his reasoned, balanced and erudite book does not convince you that your son needs to limit his carbohydrates along with his self limiting animal protein leanings then perhaps you will need to read books recommended by ferita and the other vegetarians on here. They must have some to suggest because they claim to be totally 100% healthy on such a diet. You will need as much help as you can get so that your son learns about good health before he leaves home and starts looking after himself.
ferita,
Jun 3, 8:59am
The book was written by a vegan not a vegetarian. Get a grip on reality and stop spreading your deluded ignorance. This is a vegetarian thread take your rubbish elsewhere
ferita,
Jun 3, 9:04am
Both Keith and other phony environmentalist omnivores like her fellow author Derrick Jensen, use the fact that they have a medical illness as an excuse to not only eat meat, but to promote the killing of billions of animals. Surgeon Jerry Vlasak, MD has treated the diseases from which these proponents of animal slaughter suffer, and has stated: "The best thing one can do for the majority of human disease is leave off the eating of animals, and as for Ms. Keith and her alleged "malnutrition", vegans and vegetarians are far better nourished and healthier than any meat-eating group. As is well-known by virtually all medical doctors, most premature death in America is due to heart disease, stroke and cancer, all associated with a meat-based diet. "
ferita,
Jun 3, 9:07am
Correcting the vegetarian myth. Read and weep omnivores http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2010/03/15/correcting_the_veg etarian_myth. pdf
ferita,
Jun 3, 9:28am
Oh no, it looks like red meat burgers cause asthma now http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article. cfm? c_id=1&obj ectid=10649510&ref=rss
elliehen,
Jun 3, 9:38am
And if you're sitting back after an animal-fat-laden dinner, folks, be aware that the hour after such a meal is the hour that many an adverse cardio event occurs as sluggish, thickened blood tries to deal with its fatty overload...
wahinetoa62,
Jun 3, 9:44am
ummm uli and buzzy my son is wanting to become vegetarian not vegan so he will still be having animal products in his daily diet... as he said this morning he doesnt feel the need to give up dairy products as no one kills the cows to get the milk...
uli,
Jun 3, 10:06am
No the cows do not get slaughtered - but once he reads about how the cows get to make the milk hedrinks he might re-consider his options. Or maybe he can keep all the calves (one per year) in your backyard until they die a natural death (approx at age 20 to 30 if well looked after). You could have quite a herd of pets there.
I am not saying this to upset you, just to bring a bit of reality back into this thread.
I for my part have no problems with people eating no meat (for whatever reason - that is up to them really) - unlike the vegetarians who take exception to the idea of others eating meat. Two standards here, but I am used to that.
And to ferita: Your statement "As is well-known by virtually all medical doctors, most premature death in America is due to heart disease, stroke and cancer, all associated with a meat-based diet... " only shows me that you have no idea about reality.
As I said before those diseases are caused by eating loads of carbs. But you seem to have a tunnel vision in this aspect. Never mind this is not my problem - and I am sure wahinetoa62 and her family will read up on their new lifestyle.
cookessentials,
Jun 3, 10:14am
wahinetoa asked for advice not a diatribe! and all the scaremongering does neither of you any favours.
cookessentials,
Jun 3, 10:19am
There are endless lo-carb threads here if she wants to go into them to be bombarded by it all, I am sure she does not need it on here as well. Wahinetoa, I think your son, at twelve is looking at what he is comfortable with and it may be a fad for him, but it may not and ii think he deserves respect for thoase decisions. Good on you for looking into it and getting some good ideas to help him. He will still be getting protein from milk eggs and cheese etc.
buzzy110,
Jun 3, 4:49pm
OK wahinetoa, you let your son become a vegetarian. Personally I have no problem with that. However, you asked for info on what you need to know so that he will remain healthy and recipes. We offered you sources of information. I haven't seen any recipes of information from the vegetarian crew on exactly how to stay healthy.
Good luck on your journey and I won't worry in the least that you obviously know absolutely squat about how to stay healthy on a vegetarian diet because ferita and her crew will be able to provide plenty of abuse and rants against omnivorous diets to help you along your path to enlightenment.
Oh and one other thing here. I am speaking from the point of view of someone who became a vegetarian for the same reasons you son has decided. I do know the difference. I also know that eating any animal products is animal exploitation and it is the peculiar mental gymnastics that a vegetarian has to go through to justify eating animal products but not animal meat that just screams hypocrisy.
buzzy110,
Jun 3, 5:05pm
Take cheese for example. I hope all the vegos on this thread only eat cheese made with vegetarian rennet because rennet is derived from new born calves and those calves have to be slaughtered in order to get the rennet.
All mammalian young are born with rennet. When they consume milk, the rennet in the gut turns the liquid into a solid food which is how babies can thrive on a liquid diet, whilst we can't.
So now you have learned one thing about being a vegetarian from me. You have also learned from uli that young male calves are slaughtered young for veal as they are useless for milk production. And remember this catchphrase from vegans - "All milk comes from a cow that is grieving for her lost baby" - there are no exceptions to this.
I hope your son will never play footy because all balls are made from leather. Hens are bred specifically to be egg producers. They are are forced to produce eggs their whole lives, then are slaughtered when their usefulness is over. So tell your son that his eggs are derived from animals that will also be killed for dog food so he shouldn't eat them either because they ultimately meet the same fate as their meat producing bretheren.
As for fish. Well their death is even more merciless than abbatoir slaughtered animals. They are dragged from the sea in pain (their swim bladders bloated) then left to die a slow and cruel death, crushed beneath the weight of their fellows in the holds of fishing boats.
Remember too that all medicines have been animal tested. These animals are put through unbelievable torture. I hope he never ever has to use any medicines. You should be learning about natural medicines now, so you can treat your son yourself should he become ill. If you use medicine then he is just another hypocrite like the vegos in this thread.
ferita,
Jun 3, 6:25pm
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA You have no idea about vegetarians do you. What makes you think that all vegetarians give a toss about animals dying?
I have been a vegetarian all my life and I eat cheese made from animal rennet. I go fishing and kill fish, in fact I killed 4 nice big kahawai last night. I dont eat them but I am quite happy to kill them.
In fact I used to work in a meat factory and I am a qualified chef so I have cooked and prepared plenty of meat. I have no problem if you want to eat meat thats your business just like it is my business if I dont want to.
Being a vegetarian has nothing to do with not wearing leather shoes it has to do what you want to eat. The cows are going to be killed regardless of my shoes or not. You meat eaters are gonna kill them anyway so I dont mind wearing leather shoes.
Why is it you losers think that you have any right to judge others about how they eat and live their lives? You are bigots and your carry on is as bad as racism.
bedazzledjewels,
Jun 3, 6:27pm
Wahinetoa - it would be a good idea to take your son to a dietician or nutrtitionist or naturopath to learn how to eat as a vegetarian so that your meals are as balanced as possible. If he doesn't like the taste of meat that's fine. All of us have foods we don't like the taste of. If however, he has an ethical problem with animals being killed, in my opinion, he needs to realise that every food we eat has involved the death of some living creature. Especially cereals and grains which not only seriously deplete our soils but many creatures are killed during the harvesting of such crops. But maybe he only objects to larger animals being killed! It's called the circle of life. Everything eats something that has been alive! Even we will in turn be eaten when we die. Even the vegetarians are eating foods that have involved the deaths of living creatures (insects, rodents, microbes, etc, etc) in the production of that food.
Good luck to you both.
ferita,
Jun 3, 6:28pm
Uli, stop taling rubbish. You think you know everything but you dont have a clue. Just because you have read a few books on a subject doesnt make you an expert.
Stop using your passive aggressive bigotry on here to promote your pre-meat agenda. Its disgusting that you think you have a right to come here and try and promote your meat eating when someone is is wanting to become a vegetarian.
ferita,
Jun 3, 6:30pm
Oh look, its another pro-meat propaganda pusher. This is a vegetarian thread, we are not interested in your illogical rubbish.
bedazzledjewels,
Jun 3, 6:37pm
Actually Ferita, I don't push meat at all. My comments are addressed to Wahinetoa. I've yet to see your advice to her on how to balance her son's diet. As a vegetarian, you will have developed a balanced eating plan by now and I would have thought you would be wanting to help Wahinetoa to understand how to eat this way?
For your information, I'm currently assisting a vegan to lower her carb intake. I've got nothing against people deciding to eat whatever they want to! But I do object to the way you attack people you know nothing about on a public forum. It is not a good advert for what your lifestyle achieves. Most amusing actually.
ferita,
Jun 3, 6:48pm
Talking about yourself are you.
ruby19,
Jun 3, 7:41pm
Wahinetoa, I bet you are so... glad you asked this question. All I can reinforce is if your son does cut out meat, is to make sure he eats avariety of foods. (As we all should eating meat or not)As you can see above, there are many "views" on how one should eat, but at the end of the day it is up to the individual. Of course if you saw the meat free diet wasn`t agreeing with your son, like most parents you would intervine. It is a bit tiresome with the same old, same old being bantered about, and changes a innocent topic into a mine field, unfortunately. Pity there isn`t a delete button! ! Good luck to your son.
white_elephant,
Jun 3, 7:53pm
I'd be very proud of a 12 year who is against the killing of animals. I am not a vegetrian but admire people who are. .
willyow,
Jun 3, 11:04pm
Thisinteresting debate seems to be getting hijacked! If a 12 year old wants to be a vegetarian he deserves the support of his mother and family. The issues for his mother will all be health-related -getting enough protein into a growing boy without feeding him meat will be a challenge - especially is he isn't keen on nuts. Perhaps the vegetarians could offer a few ideas - instead of wading into peoplewho don't think it's such a great idea. ( I'm a meat eater - so not much help, bit find wahinetoa62 's situation reallyinteresting)
elliehen,
Jun 3, 11:43pm
bedazzledjewels, if you genuinely believe this, you have been bedazzled by science writers who are not scientists themselves but often journalists who see an opportunity to make a quick dollar by writing about a fashionable subject... currently the high animal-fat fad.
And you are in trouble... what if your dentist, surgeon, doctor, car mechanic, housepainter, child's teacher et al is one of these physically and mentally impaired people - a v********n?
ferita,
Jun 4, 4:37am
+1 Great post. It is a shame in this day and age that ignorant bigots truly believe this inane rubbish that vegetarians and vegans are mentally impaired.
fmgirl,
Jun 4, 5:51am
I can't understand how someone looking for ideas and help in preparing and making vegetarian meals, ends up being a blimmin debate. I don't think recipes is the right forum for this - go to politics and opinion if you want to discuss the mental capacity of vegetarians.
vintagekitty,
Jun 4, 7:02am
I reckon, poor poster #1, the same people have been asked to stop their waffling in threads, over and over and over. its Boring and uncalled for------ ie this is RECIPES not opinions.
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