i have tried several recipes (and eaten it all) but it's not really like bread. Any recipe suggestions or is this my lot?
buzzy110,
May 9, 10:36pm
I'm not sure what you mean by 'cake'. Do you mean that the bread is crumbly and sort of falling apart rather than the well developed, 'stretchy' bread that is achieved with gluten?
If it is the crumbly texture you mean then that is because gluten, when kneaded, forms "long, elastic, rubbery strands which gives bread its distinctive texture. Without the gluten, those elastic strands do not develop so your bread will be more crumbly.
Personally I prefer sourdough bread. The long (I mean long - 8 hours or more) proving timegives the wild yeast time to 'eat' all the gluten. I have taught one gluten free person to make sour dough and she can now eat 'proper' bread again.
A sourdough bread using pure rye will give you a goodish texture, lovely flavour and be totally gluten free as well. But failing that, the wild yeasts in a long fermented sourdough will eat 90% of all the gluten in the dough with the final 10% being destroyed during cooking. It is the only way to go imo.
wildflower,
May 10, 12:20am
Fascinating stuff the way yeast works, I'd read about what gluten does in bread recently, this furthers my knowledge, interesting stuff, thanks buzzy.
buzzy110,
May 10, 12:26am
Oh do be careful wildflower. You shouldn't be seen to be doing anything other than slagging me off and calling me rude.
buzzy110,
May 10, 1:17am
If you want to learn a little bit more then you might like to read this link.
Hi Buzzy. Good information is always well received. . I read this and understand. I got out my Alison Holst bread book and their sour dough bread requires starter AND yeast. I thought this was a bit odd. Please correct me and can you suggest where I might find a more suitable recipe if this is not true sour dough. By cakey I meant too sweet and odd tecture. I can cope with the texture but sweet bead? Yuk. I have tried several bought GF breads and they are sweet too. It's not the right taste with veg soup.
pom-pom,
May 10, 1:57am
I'm collecting GF homecooked loaves to start my new extension. Please send them to..................!!!!!
carter19,
May 10, 9:25pm
i have tried several recipes (and eaten it all) but it's not really like bread. Any recipe suggestions or is this my lot!
buzzy110,
May 10, 10:36pm
I'm not sure what you mean by 'cake'. Do you mean that the bread is crumbly and sort of falling apart rather than the well developed, 'stretchy' bread that is achieved with gluten!
If it is the crumbly texture you mean then that is because gluten, when kneaded, forms "long, elastic, rubbery strands which gives bread its distinctive texture. Without the gluten, those elastic strands do not develop so your bread will be more crumbly.
Personally I prefer sourdough bread. The long (I mean long - 8 hours or more) proving timegives the wild yeast time to 'eat' all the gluten. I have taught one gluten free person to make sour dough and she can now eat 'proper' bread again.
A sourdough bread using pure rye will give you a goodish texture, lovely flavour and be totally gluten free as well. But failing that, the wild yeasts in a long fermented sourdough will eat 90% of all the gluten in the dough with the final 10% being destroyed during cooking. It is the only way to go imo.
buzzy110,
May 10, 11:02pm
I completely understand about the sweet flavour. A kindly person made me a loaf using her breadmaker and it was hideously sweet. I guess people like that.
Alison Holst just hasn't quite gotten the philosophy about sour dough. Many of the recipes I encountered used yeast along with a starter. I guess they just want it to prove faster, but that is not the aim in sour dough. The aim is to let the wild yeasts multiply in the dough using gluten as its food source and this takes time. It should not be rushed. Once the process is complete your bread will have the most wonderful sour flavour, making every other bread taste like cardboard.
Here is a link to a recipe that I used. It gives starter instructions plus a recipe. I'd like to point out that once my starter got some age onto it (1 month) I stopped using the sugar in the recipe that provided the food for the yeasts in the dough.
River Cottage did bread last night. In it he made a starter using flour, water and a piece of rhubarb. I gotta admit I thought that a very 'novel' idea. In my thread Sour dough - Success At Last, I got a lot of requests from people asking me if they could use all sorts of fruits to make their starter with.
I have no idea about using fruits or juices to make a starter. The risk of it being tainted by the fruit or juice going rotten in the initial stages seemed not a risk I would be prepared to take.
Another suggestion is for you to pop into your library's on-line catalogue and look for a suitable book to help you. I have all of Dean Brettschneider's books and each book gives good instructions on making starters.
In fact I have two of his books entitled "Baker". I recommend his books in particular as he also has a couple of good recipes for sour dough, along with expert information.
beaker59,
May 10, 11:20pm
I saw that Buzzy with the rubarb and I thought it was for the wild yeasts on the skin of the rubarb. I remember once making red wine on the skins and asking the winemaker when he was going to add the yeast and he told me theres more yeast on the skins than you could ever add. Stands to reason to me anyway!
carter19,
May 10, 11:21pm
Thank you so much for your help. I will check out the libarary, and I am getting some starter from a friend of a friend who takes bread making classes. It is refreshing to have help instead of being shouted down as on some of the boards!!
buzzy110,
May 10, 11:23pm
It's all true. Take a look at grapes and observe that they have a white coating on them. Everyone thinks it is some sort of spray but it is really yeast. I assumed that about the rhubarb too, as it is a fruit, not a vegetable. My main concern is that people will not take it out in good time and end up with a rotten, toxic starter and get disheartened.
beaker59,
May 10, 11:28pm
He did say only leave it in the first night then removed it before its first feed so guess that was covered I thought it great that such a great bread making technique was so well covered and promoted as an easier way to make bread then packet yeast which is also what I found here.
buzzy110,
May 10, 11:40pm
Yes. HFW is refreshing and he comes up with the greatest recipes. I cooked his slow cooked lamb shoulder the other day and teamed it with the Quick Pickled Onions that were made for the cheese sandwich. Both were just the absolute best. So I had guests on Saturday and served the onions as part of the salad course. I ended up making up a big bowl, between courses - letting my guest do most of the work, to show her how they were done, and then sent them home with her.
The rhubarb idea is excellent and if you follow his instructions to the letter, it would work beautifully.
nauru,
May 10, 11:49pm
Buzzy110 - Can you please post the Quick Pickled Onions recipe, thanks??
wildflower,
May 11, 12:20am
Fascinating stuff the way yeast works, I'd read about what gluten does in bread recently, this furthers my knowledge, interesting stuff, thanks buzzy.
buzzy110,
May 11, 12:26am
Oh do be careful wildflower. You shouldn't be seen to be doing anything other than slagging me off and calling me rude.
knowsley,
May 11, 1:36am
Rhubarb is a vegetable.
buzzy110,
May 11, 1:42am
Why thank you knowsley. I guess I'm not allowed to make any mistake ever. Lucky you are around to dispute everything I say.
Now please, why not tell carter exactly why her bread is cakey rather than bready, and save us all a great deal of angst.
carter19,
May 11, 1:53am
Hi Buzzy. Good information is always well received. . I read this and understand. I got out my Alison Holst bread book and their sour dough bread requires starter AND yeast. I thought this was a bit odd. Please correct me and can you suggest where I might find a more suitable recipe if this is not true sour dough. By cakey I meant too sweet and odd tecture. I can cope with the texture but sweet bead! Yuk. I have tried several bought GF breads and they are sweet too. It's not the right taste with veg soup.
pom-pom,
May 11, 1:57am
I'm collecting GF homecooked loaves to start my new extension. Please send them to.!
wildflower,
May 11, 10:44pm
Ahhh and the thread was going so well ;)
I won 'The Baker and The Cook' co-written by Dean, that's where I was reading about the gluten etc recently.I'll check out your link too Buzzy.Don't know if I have the patience to try a starter but I keep thinking about it.
buzzy110,
May 11, 11:02pm
I completely understand about the sweet flavour. A kindly person made me a loaf using her breadmaker and it was hideously sweet. I guess people like that.
Alison Holst just hasn't quite gotten the philosophy about sour dough. Many of the recipes I encountered used yeast along with a starter. I guess they just want it to prove faster, but that is not the aim in sour dough. The aim is to let the wild yeasts multiply in the dough using gluten as its food source and this takes time. It should not be rushed. Once the process is complete your bread will have the most wonderful sour flavour, making every other bread taste like cardboard.
Here is a link to a recipe that I used. It gives starter instructions plus a recipe. I'd like to point out that once my starter got some age onto it (1 month) I stopped using the sugar in the recipe that provided the food for the yeasts in the dough.
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