Hi Buzzy, my sourdough yeast is no longer working, last 2 loaves of bread i've tried to make have failed to rise. I made a normal loaf in th e bread maker this morning (must admit it smells damn good). I'm going to attempt another sourdough loaf tomorrow morning when I have lots of time. But any suggestions as to why its not working. the starter seems to be bubbling up OK and has the sour smell/taste to it. I've been using the oven on very low to rise the dough as its been a bit cooler lately and hot water cupboard doesnt seem to be warm enough anymore. but it doesnt rise! I did buy some rye flour and used it a few times. once to feed the starter and once in the bread dough - this shouldnt have affected it should it. Oh well breads nearly ready. better go and eat it while its hot and yummy, TIA
kesley,
Apr 18, 7:11am
How old is your starter! My favourite trick at the moment, is when I feed it, I take the required cup out and set it aside in a different container. I then wait a couple of weeks to use it. It makes it really sour and highly effective. I've had some killer ciabatta loaves out of it.
dibble35,
Apr 18, 7:18am
it would be maybe a month old. Has been working great upto now and I was thinking that the yeasts were getting even better/stronger. They were rising the dough faster than usual. I think i'll have another go tomorrow and rise it inthe hot water cupboard slowly. If that does nt work i might start a new starter
buzzy110,
Apr 18, 10:02pm
I don't know what you are doing. But the basic tenet of sourdough is the slow rise. I think you have been speeding the process up. It only takes a slight temperature, higher than 32C to kill off yeast and while it is OK if the ambient room temperature is higher than that, so long as the dough isn't heated beyond that during proving then it should work.
But I have to emphasis that slow is better because it gives the yeast the time to digest glutens (protein) and sugars in the flour, which is the whole reason for making bread via the sour dough method. A few short hours from go to woah may suit the modern lifestyle but it does not produce the low gluten loaf that should be the aim of sourdough.
Cool temperatures have never interfered with the proofing of my bread. When you finish kneading the dough will be a particular temperature.The internal temperature will stay relatively stable with only a slow cooling down.
And yes. Your yeasts are getting stronger and more different strains are being added with each change of flour type.
dibble35,
Apr 18, 10:47pm
Ok, i've got it rising in the hotwater cupboard again/this time. Hopefully a successful outcome this time round
buzzy110,
Apr 19, 2:02am
Is there any particular reason you don't just leave your dough to rise on the kitchen bench! I have been doing that since I started out on this journey and I have never had anything go wrong. Eight hours is an acceptable time frame to wait from finishing making your dough to putting it in the oven. The first proof takes up at least four to five hours of that time
Edited to add that my kitchen is on the cool side of the house - exactly where it should be.
jimmy3411,
Apr 19, 2:29am
This here http://youtu.be/POnxAoHl1qc is the most weird sourdough vid ever but it works. Seriously a screwed up video that is worth the watch in itself
dibble35,
Apr 19, 3:37am
No reason just that I think i read somewhere that a slightly higher temp than what i've got in my kitchen is ideal for raising bread. i'll look up website in a minuite. my hot water cupboards not very warm anyway - to well insulated, just 3-4 degrees warmer than the kitchen. Any way this loaf is looking to be another failure. had the dough all made and kneaded at about 7 this morn, it still hasnt done its thing. its not expanding as it should. definatley not doubling in size, sort of greasy looking and flat, it sort of slumps down from the nice dough ball it was this morning. It was working really well in exactley the same conditions the dozen times i've made it before. I've just refed my starter and put it in the hotwater cupboard again to see if i get a definate growth/reaction off the yeast. rather than put it away in the fridge as ihave been doing till now
dibble35,
Apr 19, 3:41am
The website i've been using is that guy S. John Ross - he says Let the dough rise in a warm place, in a bowl covered loosely with a towel (if you're using a bread machine's dough cycle, let it rise in the machine). Note that sourdough rises more slowly than yeast bread; my starter takes about an hour or so, but some starters take much longer. Let the dough double in bulk, just like yeast-bread dough. When a finger poked into the top of the dough creates a pit that doesn't "heal" (spring back), you've got a risen dough. I know everyone does it differently and up to the last few times i've been successful and happy with my results using this method. If the starter does froth up i'll try your method thanks Buzzy for my next attempt. unless its possible that a bad yeast has taken over the starter!
dibble35,
Apr 19, 11:18pm
well I think my starter is dead, was just a slimey gooey mess when i looked at it this morning. So i went to bin inn and bought several diff flours to start my new starter. Stoneground wholemeal and an organic wholemeal spelt flour, i'm sort of hoping there will be more yeast clinging to these than the normal mass produced white H/G flour. I've got a regular yeast dough in the breadmaker at the moment. gonna make Foccacia bread for my lunch
buzzy110,
Apr 20, 5:34am
So sad about your starter. I wonder what killed it. Do you have any theories! - sterile flour, water too hot, chlorine in the water, no air, etc. I always try to analyse my failures so I can avoid it happening again.
dibble35,
Apr 20, 5:58am
Starting to wonder ifmy water was to hot, actually got the temp gauge out today and even the water that felt just warm was probably to hot, keep forgetting that blood temp was (32!*C I think) and anything that is much warmer is tohotfor the yeast to survive, better luck this time i hope
buzzy110,
Apr 20, 6:05am
Yes. I think that is it as well. I find that anything that I think is lukewarm and OK is actually around 50C. Blood heat has no heat in it at all and feels cool. I usually boil a little extra in the morning (I use filtered water and only boil enough to fill my plunger) for my coffee and put it aside in a jug for use later in the day or that evening.
beaker59,
Apr 20, 7:42am
I just use tap water put of the tap at tap temp. That seems to work well for me the small amount of chlorine is lost to the air fairly quickly and the temp will adjust to room temp within 20min the fantastic thing about yeast is that it bounces back very quickly.
Restarting the sourdough starter which apeared dead would be a waste I would have just carried on feeding it even if I did start a new starter I would add a small teaspoon of the origonal starter to retrieve what bugs were already there. I do like the idea of feeding a range of flours that would ensure a richer mix of wild yeasts :)
goldgurl,
Apr 20, 8:01am
Buzzy.just remembered about the jars!We went away on Sunday morning and got back on Tuesday evening, comepletly forgot about the jars till I saw ya name in this thread title!Did you still have some available please!Sorry again.
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