njaxx. There is still time for me to send you some starter to add to your starter to bolster it up. Otherwise, I think you may just have to persevere for a little longer to get a healthy starter. In my very first posts, I did mention that my starter was rather sluggish and it took me a while. Others have been really lucky and had a good starter going in no time at all.
One of the things I changed when I was first growing my starter was to make the mixture a bit more liquid. Which meant, instead of doing equal quantities of flour and water, I used half a cup of flour to 3/4s cup water. This seemed to free up the emerging yeast and helped them reproduce faster, which is exactly what you want, considering your time frame.
I am often telling people not to worry when the liquid and the solids appear to separate. This is NOT a problem. Your starter HASN'T died off. All it means is that the excess liquid has separated out. Mine still does this occasionally and it is not any cause for concern.
It still lives on and remains as vibrant and alive as it always has when kicked into life by adding to the sponge.
On three occasions I have changed my starter from an ordinary high grade flour one to a rye starter. I think it was from uli's recipe that I made them into very stiff starters. I recommend you do that at least once in the near future (once you have been baking bread). The stiff rye starter adds an extra dimension to the starter. I'm no scientist, but I think it adds different yeasts or lactic acid balance. Anyway, my starter has become really strong, it always works perfectly, and maybe even too fast sometimes and my breads are wonderfully sour.
nzjaxx,
Dec 18, 4:57am
thanks uli and buzzy110 for the advice :)I think I will pop a bit of yeast in the mix when i add the ingredients to bake bread from my sponge later tonight or tomorrow morning and see how we go.
thank you so much for the offer of starter buzzy, I must have missed your earlier offer somehow! I am a stubborn creature though, and I am sure this starter is going to work - and my husband's birthday is late January so I can move my goalposts a little.
I am enjoying the experimenting and plodding along with my little friend, and am finding the longer it is taking the more I am understanding the process.
uli,
Dec 18, 5:33am
Good luck nzjaxx - most of us started out with bricks LOL :)
uli,
Dec 28, 8:22pm
How are you all getting on with your sourdough adventures?
If any of you have any leftover starter which they do not want to put down the drain (or onto the compost), here is a recipe with pictures on how to make sourdough pancakes, which could just be the ticket to that New Years hangover coming up LOL:
http://joepastry.com/index. php? cat=86
buzzy110,
Dec 28, 11:04pm
And for another little gem I picked up watching River Cottage. Apparently excess sour dough will keep, uncooked, in the fridge for up to a week. He wasn't very precise about this but I am assuming he is talking about the dough after it has been bulk fermented and 'knocked' back. In this case, instead of a gentle knock back which I have been recommending, I'd knock it back quite hard, then store in a plastic bag.
He used it to make flat breads such as small pizzas (is 's' the correct usage for plural pizza? ), flat sticks with sesame seeds, and frying pan cooked pita bread. I think it would be a good idea to store the excess dough already sized so you can just use what you want.
kamitchell,
Dec 30, 3:29am
HI Buzzy, can you help me please? I started a rye flour starter last Friday (Christmas Day), and am feeding it each day after I throw out half of it. It got the yeasty/beer smell to it quite quickly, but doesn't appear to be puffing up anytime soon. I have it in the hot water cupboard too. Each day when I go to feed it, it has a crust formed on top, and this gets broken when I stir it and do the other things to it. I'm just wondering what I should do with it now? Should I keep going and persevere? ? I am really wanting this bug to work so I can make our sourdough bread for our family! TIA
buzzy110,
Dec 30, 3:43am
First let me say hi. Nice to have you here.
I think rye makes a brilliant starter and I am very impressed that you are able to get it because the shops in Auckland have sold out and I miss being able to substitute some rye flour for other flours in my loaves. It makes the best tasting bread ever imo.
Second. I have never had a crust form so I am assuming one of two things is occurring. You are not covering your starter OR the starter is quite stiff.
If you are making a stiff starter then it will take a lot more yeast for it to begin increasing in volume. I had that problem, and after a while I hit upon the idea of using just 1/2 a cup of flour to 3/4 cup of water (28dC). This made a more liquid starter and it took less effort for the yeast to gas up and increase the starter's volume.
One of the things I look for, as well as bubbles and froth on the top, is the appearance of bubbles inside. If you are using a glass container, take a look at your newly refreshed starter on the sides and you will see that it is reasonably smooth. After a while you should notice that that smooth appearance is sort of getting tiny 'flaws' or bubbles in it. This denotes that your starter is working from the inside as well as on the top.
Note: With the more runny mixture excess liquid will separate out from the solids. Do not despair. This is quite normal and in no way does it impair your starter. I just stir it back in when I refresh or make the sponge.
buzzy110,
Dec 30, 3:51am
I have been thinking about how newbie sour dough makers can ascertain whether their starter is ready for baking and the following has occurred to me.
Instead of throwing away the leftover starter when you are refreshing, and when you think your starter may just be viable, why not take some ordinary cheap high grade flour (no point using the expensive stuff) and mix an equal quantity of that into the bit you were going to throw away. Stir it and if it is stiff enough, knead it and put it into a warm place in an oiled soup bowl, covered with a plastic bag, and see what happens. If it rises inside 8 hours your starter is good to go.
This is just a suggestion. It would take very little in the way of flour and time but would take the guess work out of the initial stages, where everyone seems to make bricks. lol. My first brick was dire. I couldn't even soak it for the birds.
kamitchell,
Dec 30, 3:52am
Thanks Buzzy, and such a fast reply too! I am slowly reading this thread from the start, and am so far up to page 7 :)My starter is pretty runny (like pancake mixture), and I have it in a 2 litre pyrex bowl, it doesn't have a lid on it but I cover it with a teatowel. Maybe I need to throw it out and start again. It seems so wasteful to be throwing half of it out every day when I feed it lol What do you think I should do? Another thing about the rye flour; I buy it from Gilmours here in Hamilton, and only pay $7 for 3 kilos! Beats paying $5 for 750grams at the supermarket!
buzzy110,
Dec 30, 3:56am
I wonder if you saw the River Cottage segment on breadmaking? In that you will have noticed that the breadmaker made his dough very sticky. That is the sort of consistency your dough needs to be but I think you won't have any experimental dough left if you make it that way so I suggest making it a little drier. It is only experimental and going to be thrown away anyway.
You wouldn't bake it because there won't be any salt in it and that would make it blah. Don't be tempted to add salt to your experiment because salt sort of kills yeast. It is fine in a proper dough but all you want to do is see if your starter is strong enough and no point in adding something that will kill the new yeasts and lactic acids in it, off.
buzzy110,
Dec 30, 4:02am
Definitely DO NOT go throwing your embryo starter away. Keep working with what you have. Already it will be getting stronger. And yes it is wasteful in the beginning but I don't have any waste now. I refresh when I bake and use all my starter every time. I always have the same amount and it is sufficient, whether I am making several loaves or just one because it is very strong.
Don't get too impressed at the speed I replied. I have just made up a new sponge for turning into dough later tonight and was tossing up whether to go outside and water my garden or check this thread while I was thinking about sour dough. I'd been cutting up old vegetables from my garden for dehydrating and washing and a million other things so I thought I could do with a break. Lucky huh?
Not all the posts need to be read by the way.
uli,
Dec 30, 5:20am
It will keep for years buzzy - however the yeasts will die off after a while, so all you have to do is add some bakers yeast to it when using and you will have the taste of sourdough and the acid to render at least some of the anti-nutrients "safe" and the yeast to rise whatever you are baking. I know a lot of people who do a bulk lot once every several months and then keep it in the fridge:)
kamitchell,
Dec 30, 5:42am
No I didn't see the little river cottage episode on bread making, I very rarely watch TV of any sort. I read somewhere in here that some people have had better luck having the bug on the kitchen bench instead of the hot water cupboard, should I try this and see what happens? I am extremely impatient lol and would love for my bug to all of a sudden puff up and be ready to use! I was also wondering if maybe I should have the bug in a container with a lid on, do you think this would make a difference? I sooo hope my bug takes off before I give up on it and ask some kind person to send me some of theirs ;)I feel that would be cheating
beaker59,
Dec 30, 5:48am
I keep mine in a jar on the bench (which I suspect is too warm even this time of year) the jar is a good sized jam jar with a id sitting on loosly. If I am not baking much I put it in the fridge.
buzzy110,
Dec 30, 6:55am
Oh that is interesting uli. Months. I was impressed with a week. lol
uli,
Dec 30, 9:26am
The lactic acid preserves it just as it does your veges that you ferment. So it rarely goes off, normally it just forms the hooch on top and sits and sulks - getting more sour by the week LOL :)
Just for raising a dough it is not useful any more, as the yeasts die off after a while. But if you add bakers yeast then you can easily use it :)
beaker59,
Dec 30, 9:39am
If you just resumed feeding it would come back to life eventually though surely Uli.
uli,
Dec 30, 9:43am
Depends how long you leave it, it can get to the point of no return for the yeast LOL :)
kamitchell,
Dec 30, 9:58am
OK, tonight I took the starter and took the skin/crust off the top, tipped a bit more out & then fed it again, I have left it out on the kitchen bench and covered it in gladwrap; thought I would see if this hurries it up any
kamitchell,
Dec 30, 7:48pm
Ooh this morning my bug has small bubbles on the top & hasnt formed a crust. Should I leave it sitting for a few days and see what happens or keep feeding it once a day? Sorry for all the questions, but I am a complete begginer at this
buzzy110,
Dec 30, 8:29pm
I woke up this morning thinking I really need to get back to grass roots and make a starter from scratch. My journey was so messed up with long breaks and periods of despair, that I need to try and do it again.
Why not feed, as normal but with the bit you were going to throw away, keep in a jar for two days and do nothing but look at it compare the results?
buzzy110,
Dec 30, 10:14pm
I have made up the first batch for my new starter. I just used equal quantities of flour and water to start with. Made sure my water was 28dC. Any hotter and what yeast there is in the flour will be killed off and the starter will take longer when just collecting yeasts from the air (or so I presume).
Already I am starting to look at it. Smacks self. Get over it. Will report back in a week.
buzzy110,
Dec 31, 10:01pm
One more thing. I read through the instructions for making a starter and I noticed the temperatures were in Fahrenheit so I have done a conversion. 70-80dF equals 21-27dC. This is good because ambient temperatures at the moment, in Auckland are round about that during the day. The nights are cooler.
Therefore I am picking that my starter will take longer because of the cooler nights but not as long as it took me to get one going mid-winter when temperatures were only about 15-16dC during the day and single figures at night.
My hot water cupboard is not that 'hot' so I just leave everything on the bench.
Yesterday I decided to see if rye flour was back and lo, the health food shop had it so I am very happy.
buzzy110,
Dec 31, 10:10pm
And just to skite. I finished baking the loaf I had started the evening before, yesterday and it is my best ever in terms of texture. It is reminiscent of the white or brown chubby loaves, which were all that were available when I was growing up. I had decided, for some obscure reason to reproduce the chubby loaf and when I split it I was blown away. Mine has lots of wholemeal and grains in it but when I slice through it, it even squashes down like the chubby loaves. Even better, it has a beautiful sour flavour and the crust is crispy, but not chewy.
I think I probably prefer a harder, chewier loaf, but it is nice to know, that if I need to produce a loaf that is soft and fluffly and looks and feels exactly like a bought one, but is superior nutritionally and tastewise, I can. I am still amazed.
Skite over.
beaker59,
Jan 1, 12:01am
Us lesser mortals dream of the light fluffy loaves mine are probably half way between Vogels and that heavenly light fluffy pinacle of bready perfection. But it is gorgeous toasted with a nice honey or spread with sardines and a slice of tomato on top. Today however I bake with my starter at its best I have been home allot lately so have been able to feed twice daily and nurture my baby.
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