Sour dough - Success at last.

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rog.e, Jul 4, 2:56am
Making bread in my maker at the mo And reading up about ingredients I see that this is in there:
"Generally homemade bread goes stale faster than bread from a commercial baker becaise it contains no aditives. However it is possible to use a sourdough starter in breadmaker dough recipes. Sourdough contains a symbiotic brew of yeats and lactobacteria cultures. Lacric acid produced by sourdough's bacteria greatly preserves bread, as well as enhancing its flavour. " Has anyone ever tried to make Sourdough Bread in a maker? I guess a strong culture would be needed. Any info. appreciated. V
buzzy110, Jul 4, 5:00am
Higj. I followed the recipe on this site: http://www.io.com/~sjohn/sour.htm . I just type in Sour Dough baking into the search box. I also followed his instructions for making the starter. The information is great but I reckon he greatly understated times. It actually took me weeks, maybe even 6 - 8 weeks to finally come up with a foolproof starter. times for rising are also wrong. Even when I leave mine in the sun, it still takes a good 4 - 5 hours for the first rising and I allow about 3 for the second. This allows decent fermenting and the bread comes out absolutely perfect. I am constantly amazed. It is better than anything I have ever bought with the exception of Vogels Original.
buzzy110, Jul 4, 5:05am
The first time I made bread I followed his instructions to the letter but now I just sort of wing it. I have started using mixtures of different grains and I prefer lots of wholemeal. These grains take more water so I leave my dough more moist than would be practical with plain white flour. This gives the grains the opportunity to absorb liquid, swell and soften and probably why it takes so much longer to raise. I prefer the long raise as I can leave my dough for long periods without any undue loss of quality. Now I also substitute melted, unprocessed honey for the sugar.
buzzy110, Jul 4, 5:11am
Hi bernice. I remember your post in the earlier thread where you say you make your own bread daily. I bet you would have so much more information to impart than me, a veritable novice. I usually only bake about once a week as that is all the bread we need. The lasting capability of sourdough is phenomenal. I made two loaves from my starter the other day, one was a normal Vienna and the other I made into a smallish flat round and sliced it into sections, put it into a round cake tin (bigger than the dough ball) and let it rise to fit the tin then partially cooked it and froze it. I am going to defrost it when I want it, wrap in tinfoil and reheat. Apparently that makes a lovely crispy crust. Fingers crossed. Making some boullibaise and will take it to friends for lunch.
buzzy110, Jul 4, 5:19am
Hi rog. e. Sadly I don't have a breadmake so can't help you at present. I just use my Kenwood with the dough hook. In the early days I tried making bread before my starter was 'fully operational' and it made nice solid, dense ghastly anchors but the starter I have finally managed to produce would easily work in a breadmaker. Our tenants have a daughter who lives in Thames and she visits regularly. Would you like me to give her a jar of my 'pet' for you?
buzzy110, Jul 4, 5:22am
I have been reading the bread thread (well only got to the first page so far) but uli has set out instructions for a starter and said she'd post recipes later when anyone had made their starter. I really need to search through that thread and see what she has shared with us. Juliewn, who started the thread, also said she started out using a maker but now prefers making by hand.
buzzy110, Jul 4, 5:27am
I do go on, I know but one last piece of advice for gjs. Your starter will not be strong enough till it rises as well as bubbles. Do what I did, when you feel you have fed it enough and wasted enough time and flour, just put it away in the fridge and forget it for about 2 weeks, then take it out and leave it on the bench overnight and see what happens. If it rises then make your first loaf, if not, feed it again and leave it on the bench overnight. If nothing happens put it away for a while till it starts to look 'buoyant'. Stirring it (I use a chopstick) will do it no harm at all and, in fact, I think helps spread the yeast around to good effect.
rog.e, Jul 4, 5:38am
Ni buzzy Thabks for the kind offer which I may not need to accept I am hoping. I have a new one started and will see how I get on. btw - what colour does your starter have? My one I threw and (sadly) wish I hadn't now, was fawnish coloured and striong yeat smell. Frothed up alarmingly when I fed it lol. It had some wholemeal feeds and this might account for the colour. V
rog.e, Jul 4, 5:49am
The Bread thread buzzy was reading http://tinyurl.com/lell6b
morrello1, Jul 4, 8:19am
... ... sorry I haven't read the whole thread but I too experimented with making sourdough bread a couple of years ago. I learnt it all form paulthebread on the BBC food messageboard(I expect he's still posting there if anyone wants to track hi down && get more info). I found it fabulous & SO easy! Sure, takes bit longer but still is very easy. I ended up not worrying about throwing my starter away coz I found it so easy to start a new one. The recipe I used was: 1/2cup flour(pref organic wholemeal) & 1/2 cup water. Stir & leave out of fridge overnight. Next day tip 1/2 that out(when it's active can use that to make the day's bread) add 1/4 cup flour, 1/4 cup water, mix etc etc untill it's bubbly & active & voila!
gjsimps, Jul 4, 8:32am
Thanks Buzzy. . Taken note of what you say. I will make my sour dough bread, my bakery keeps putting their charges up. So now I will make my own.
janny3, Jul 4, 11:32am
Thanks Buzzy You've explained about the sour-dough very well, I need to make sour-dough too but will have to experiment a bit w/ my bread maker.
buzzy110, Jul 4, 10:06pm
rog. e it sounds like you had made the perfect starter. I haven't used wholemeal to feed mine so the colour stays a sort of floury off-white sort of colour. I just leave mine in the fridge to slow it down. I've worked it out that if I want to keep it for longer without having to feed it I make up the feeding mixture (1 cup each flour & water) and just add a tablespoon of the old starter, mix it in and put it away in the fridge when it is quite cold. In my very short experience I have found it takes a while for the yeast to eat through all the food so it will last up to a week without me having to worry about it. When I want to use it I put it on the bench for the day then make up the sponge last thing before going to bed. By the time I wake up it is perfect to start making my bread.
fishnetter, Jul 5, 3:37am
excuse my ignorance but what is a "sponge". Ihave seen it mentioned when the mixture bubbles etc make up a sponge. I am an amatuer bread maker but really keen to give it a go. cheers
ange164, Jul 5, 9:07pm
I wondered too; so I googled. read the link. From http://www.io.com/~sjohn/sour.htm
Several hours before you plan to make your dough (recipe below), you need to make a sponge. A "sponge" is just another word for a bowl of warm, fermented batter. This is how you make your sponge.

Take your starter out of the fridge. Pour it into a large glass or plastic bowl. Meanwhile, wash the jar and dry it. You may also wish to pour boiling water over it, since you don't want other things growing in there with your pet!
bernice1, Jul 5, 11:08pm
I use the breadmaker sometimes to mix the dough. Set it to the dough setting, place all ingredients in and let it go. In this cold weather I set the breadmaker to mix the dough in the evenings and leave the dough in the breadmaker overnight. Next morning, put dough into bread loaf tins and leave for the second rise before baking in the oven. Breadmaker does not get hot enough to bake the bread, hence we use the oven.
buzzy110, Jul 5, 11:37pm
That's a clever idea. Yesterday I made a sponge in the evening because I had a spare batch of starter and didn't want to waste it) and then had to do step 2 (adding the flours and keneading, etc). I was really busy with guests and didn't get to finish the process till midnight. A breadmaker would have saved me a whole heap of being awake.
janny3, Jul 8, 3:31pm
Thanks for this thread everyone I'm going to try the bread machine suggestion & see what we come up w/. Cheers!
rog.e, Jul 9, 4:35am
just reporting that my new sourdough plant is doing nicely. Based it on wholemeal flour but feeding with standardwqhite flour. I am going to try it out on the weekend even if it will, hopefully, improve with more time. V
buzzy110, Jul 9, 5:51am
Good luck rog. e. I branched out the other day and added sundried tomatoes, rosemary and onion to my bread following one of juliewn's ideas from the bread thread. I moulded them into rounds (like hamburger buns) as well as two whole wedged rounds. They were sooo yummy. I gave a wedged loaf to our neighbour with a freshly cooked jar of my homemade feijoa jelly. She politely told me they an acquired taste. That's what you get from people who only like tasteless, over-processed, additive filled food and soft white cottonwool bread. Sigh.
buzzy110, Jul 10, 3:25am
today I splashed out on a triple rack for raising and cooking baguettes in. I'm really looking forward to using it. The sticks I have made up to now have all gotten a bit wide. Also the Baker book I have has a terrific sourdough baguette recipe. I will be making that next week when I have more time. Been busy making lemon curd at the moment. Have to make a lemon tart and Choux brest for my friend's party on Sunday. I'm just sitting here putting those tasks off but I better get going or I'll be trying to put them together after the party is over! ! !
rog.e, Jul 10, 3:41am
I sigh with youbusy buzzy But everyone with love your lemon effort on Sunday I am sure of that. Baguettes - so nice and crusty - wish you great success. V
buzzy110, Jul 12, 12:55am
Am halfway through my baguettes. Such a strange recipe. It seems to like the like put in the fridge (first time for 12hrs and second time for 24hrs) after each knead. So won't be finished till tomorrow sometime. I quite like the idea of putting slightly risen, kneaded dough in the fridge to retard growth. Means that with some pre-planning, I can have 'fresh out of the oven' bread to coincide with meals, etc. However, bread shouldn't be eaten hot but at least it will be 'super' fresh.
buzzy110, Jul 12, 12:56am
How did your first trial run with new starter turn out rog. e?
buzzy110, Dec 17, 10:09pm
If not using a tin then there are two things you can do with your loaf.

If you are using a mold (I use a cane basket mold) then put your loaf into that, seam side up) and rise as per above. When it is risen, tip it out on some baking paper so that the seam is on the bottom and cook.

If you are just letting it free form then put your formed loaf directly onto a sheet of baking paper on a board, seam side down, and let rise in your blown up plastic bag or with a piece of gladwarp over to stop a hard skin forming. Cook when risen.