I know its there thanks Uli, already started reading it :-). thats where I got the 'sponge' thing from. this is what someone said.take starter out of fridge, put most of it in large bowl, add 1 C warm water, and 1 C flour, stir well, warm place for several hours(proofing) when this sponge is bubbly and has white froth it is ready, they likened it to warm fermented batter, then this is used to make the dough. See what i mean to many diff recipes on how to do it, very confusing, no mention of feeding it 3 times. i think i'll have to invest in this book mentioned above
dibble35,
Mar 18, 6:03am
Sorry, got it wrong, wasnt someone on thread had said it, it was on this website that they recommended looking at. http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/blueroom/sour.htm actually quite a good website, makes it all seem so easy
angel404,
Mar 18, 6:05am
Im still trying to get my starter going. Ive got the general idea and am going to wing it once (hopefully) my starter has done its thing.
buzzy110,
Mar 19, 2:52am
uli is probably not up with English terminology. What we call the 'sponge', is the intermediate step that comes between the starter and the actual making of the dough. In order to have sufficient yeast to make a good dough that can be kneaded create strong gluten chains which capture gas in the dough. In uli's case, she would call that 'second sour' - I think as that is the impression I got from attempting her rye bread recipe. The 'first sour' is the starter.
Fyi, rye bread is very different to make because it contains negligible gluten and cannot be kneaded. It also require commercial yeast if you want a loaf, as opposed to a flatish round bread.
buzzy110,
Mar 19, 3:00am
for a straightforward outline of exactly how sourdough bread is made from scratch, and all of the why's, why not take a look at the site I am about to post. I just made my starter following his basic information. Once that was done I then continued on and made his basic white loaf.
As the years have passed I learned to observe and analyse what was happening so that I understood the whole process and can now easily make a starter from scratch and have a completed, fluffly loaf, within the week without using any commercial yeast at all.
One of the things I did learn was that there is no need for honey or any other sweet food to get the yeast multiplying in the sponge. The yeasts already in the starter are perfectly happy to eat the flour and gluten that it gets from the sponge (second sour).
The standard recipe in this site is perfect for making a mixed grain bread. Instead of 3 cups of white flour you can use just one and two cups of different flours. Best to make the plain flour first just to acquaint yourself with whole process.
I cannot remember the exact quantities he uses for his starter. I just stick to the one cup rule. One cup of everything, including the starter.
dibble35,
Mar 19, 5:40am
Hi angel, remember i started a starter on saturday with the 2C flour, 1C water, 1tspn yeast and 1C unsweetened yoghurt. You mentioned seeing this recipe as well. Its working really well, frothy, yeasty smell, expanding and contracting again. I used the Alison Holst recipe. Hers said to just stir it for 4-7 days till its ready, and then to refrigerate after it smells definitely sour and has a clear layer on top. Havnt got to the clear layer on top yet but already deviating from her recipe, have been feeding it every 24 hours, and it seems to like that, swells up and each time it has a diff yeasty/sour smell, just had a smell of it now and its got a slight vinegary tang to it. hope it hasnt caught any bad bugs! I'm like a mum hovering over it, checking up on its progress quite a few times a day.
angel404,
Mar 19, 9:35am
Sounds promising dibble! My starter seems to be doing sweet feck all. Altho it does have a yeasty smell to it and it does bubble and this morning it did have a layer of water on it. but ive never seen (or seen any evidence) of it rising or doubling in size tho. I feed mine once a day with 1/2c water and 1/2c flour and discard half the mixture before adding the feed. Im being impatient i know but i really want to make a loaf - I even bought a whole new oven last monday!
dibble35,
Mar 19, 7:35pm
Im being impatient i know but i really want to make a loaf - I even bought a whole new oven last monday![/quote]
That is keen, wish i had a new oven, my one sux big time, have to adjust the temp gauge as its not right, starts to burn food at the back of the oven so have to swap trays/cakes around half way thru baking, and always cooks quicker than the recipe says. Have learnt to adjust to it but would be nice to be able to put the food in turn timer on and walk away without having to check on the food every time.
angel404,
Mar 20, 12:38am
exactly dibble. About 18months ago i had 3 simmerstats replaced - 1 of those is broken again. Then for the oven to actually cook anything it had to be cranked up as hot as it could go. That meant I couldnt cook cakes very well but everything else was ok as long as i watched it. Finally got thermostat in oven replaced so oven was working well for about a month then blew. So then the oven wouldnt get over 70degrees. So could cook nothing. Then next day oven wasnt working at all. Grill also hasnt been working for at least a year. So thought it was high time I derserved a brand new oven. And boy oh boy do i LOVE it!
dibble35,
Mar 20, 1:56am
Bl**dy hell, that ovens worse than mine. Trouble is we need a new fridge as well (priority) and i'm the only one that regularly uses the oven part, stovetop is fine and thats what gets used 95% of the time. So i'll just have to suffer in silence - other than the odd moan about it on here :-)
angel404,
Mar 20, 2:42am
Haha yeah sucks when u cant have it all. I really want a new dishwasher coz ours is really useless BUT the oven really needed replacing and so does our carpet so those are our priority before the dishwasher. Should i just try and make a loaf with my starter and see what happens! its getting watery stuff on the top each day now and smells quite strong.
dibble35,
Mar 20, 2:59am
That sounds promising. I actually just put a loaf on, was doing the tip 1/2 out and feed thing and it smelled so lovely and was all bubbly, so thought just use it and add a bit of yeast in case. Meant to sit in the breadmaker for 18hrs! if I want it to develop a real strong sour dough taste but cant wait that long. actually i'd already chucked all ingrediants in the bread maker before I READ THaT BIT, meant to leave yeast outand add at end of 18hrs, so its on and now the whole house smells of yeast. Watch/listen to everyone walking up the hallway sniffing as they smell the starter in the hotwater cupboard, its quite strong.
angel404,
Mar 20, 3:03am
ohh i might use my breadmaker. which setting on it do you use!
dibble35,
Mar 22, 11:03pm
just the standard loaf setting, med crust. Turned out nice, had a distinct sour smell to it and didnt go as stale as quickly but the taste was the sameish. I'm attempting my first proper loaf today without adding any storebought yeast, just added all the flour sugar etc and its now having its first rise, hope it doesnt take to long, id love to have it with dinner. Started another starter on the bench, it sat there looking very dead for 2 days but now its bubbling up a bit. Be interesting to see if it tastes or rises any different when its ready. Put my first starter away in the fridge for the first time. feel a bit mean actually. Can it pick up any strong smells eg onion/garlic from the fridge!
angel404,
Mar 23, 3:53am
when i put my starter in the fridge in usually in a jar with a lid on.im attempting to rise my dough in a warm oven lol. just gotta keep checking it to make sure it doesnt get too warm!
dibble35,
Mar 23, 6:41pm
well my first loaf was a success. It rose well, looked great, was a lot more work than the standard chuck it all in the bread maker and wait 3hours loaf though. I made it 2 cups wholemeal and 1 cup white flour and it tasted Ok, would nt rave over it though, so maybe i'll try a few more times with a white loaf, maybe a sourdough foccacia, its satisfying though knowing that you did it all yourself
dibble35,
Mar 23, 6:43pm
so how did yours turn out angel!
dibble35,
Mar 23, 6:45pm
And did you cook it in a loaf tin or just on a tray. would like to put it in a tin but think the loaf tin i have is tosmall. Would overfill it way to much, have to keep an eye out for a bigger one.
rrrg,
Mar 23, 7:46pm
elliehen - could you make the rye bread in a breadmaker!
angel404,
Mar 23, 11:41pm
well hubby took it out of the oven so he could cook apple crumble so then i forgot about it lol. This morning all had all sunk so i threw it out and am starting again. Husband reckons this is loaf of bread is taking FOREVER and hes quite right LOL
dibble35,
Mar 24, 12:49am
Hes quite right thats how i felt, all that work/time for 1 loaf. but i guess when you get used to your starter and how fast/slow it rises the bread you can just leave it for a set amount of time instead of checking to see if its doubled yet, and also doing the sponge thing the night before would speed things up a lot, still - not the sort of bread you could make if you were working.
elliehen,
Mar 24, 2:05am
Sorry, I don't know.I hope someone else will be able to answer that for you.
angel404,
Mar 24, 3:58am
ive got my starter in the warmish oven atm but its not doing much. Im nearly at the point of giving up tbh! When we got given our starter in class it bubbled up so fast and only at room temp. Think I killed it.
angel404,
Mar 24, 9:43am
Oops i cooked it. Think its time to give up on that idea!
dibble35,
Mar 24, 8:10pm
Angel. what are you doing. poor starter:-(My one that I started on the bench last wednesday isnt doing much, sort of seperates into a liquid layer and a gluggy mess down the bottom, will give up on that one soon i think. But the other one that i started with the yeast and yoghurtis doing well. Made another sponge just before I went to bed and got up early as(didnt sleep well last night) and made the dough just out of white flour this time, well less than 2 hours later it had risen beautifully, so another quick knead and shape and its doing its 2nd rise in a loaf tin this time. Will let you know how it cooks/tastes this time round. We were supposed to be going fishing and wanted it to take along but its to windy apparently - bummer
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